This year's fees to do my job paid out of my pocket:
1. Exam fees x2: £1140
2. Hotel and travel cost for exam: £240
3. GMC fee: £433
4. Parking at hospital: £420
5. Indemnity: £650
6. Unrefunded courses: £450
7. Royal college fee: £168
8. Books and resources: 150
Total: £3651
Physican Associate in Gynae theatre today assisting a case whilst the CTs and FYs do all the ward work... Not only should they absolutely be no where near gynae surgery...they don't even have surgery in their training... or title.
Please watch this video.
When I need to call out a plumber I’m grateful to pay £40/h because I don’t have the first clue how to fix my boiler, or the skills to fix a burst pipe.
Doctors are asking for half of that, to fix your kids.
Following the RCoA EGM landslide. The floodgates have opened. PA practice is going to be thoroughly scrutinised and all Advanced Practice roles should be under the microscope. No more ACPs on reg bleeps or PAs seeing undifferentiated patients. Change is here for patient safety.
3 years in a row and not a single failure...this demonstrates how low the bar truely is for these guys. Compare this to medical school finals and post graduate exams where pass rates are less than 50% in some cases.
Just snippets of knowledge is all you need... before you plunge someone unconscious, take over their core bodily functions and manage them through an operation where their tissues are burned, cut, and organ systems manipulated....just snippets...
It's quite mad how doctors just leave the NHS with no exit interview. Despite working in a department for months or years...Rotations just occur with no formal concluding meeting. You just don't really exist at all to management.
'Equivalency' as a concept and phrase needs to be binned. No PA, AA or ACP is 'equivalent' to an ST3 or 4 or SHO or F1. These are doctor grades reserved for earned doctor skillsets. Correct your colleagues when these phrases creep into NHS vocab as it galvanises scope creep.
‼️ Look at this... this is the future of NHS 'expert' gastroenterology care. Seen by a non-doctor, diagnosed by a non-doctor and scoped by a non-doctor ‼️
Wow. Guess I didn't need to pass the 52 exams after school after all. Oh and the 4 career defining interviews, over 4 years of revision, hundreds of assignments and a CV that would get me a place in a top 5 consulting firm. Cool. I feel valued.
Any Physician’s want to apply to this £90K job as a Physician’s Assistant?
benefits:
✅ fewer hours!
✅ less responsibility!
✅ MASSIVE payrise!
✅ Work as your own ASSISTANT for vastly superior terms, conditions, and work life balance!
Try it!
See what happens!
#Mugged
Anyone can intubate...I can teach the cleaner on the ward to. But should they? This is the point. Putting a tube in someone is often the easy bit...its the stuff around the tube that makes this a protected skill. So no. No you don't get to.
4/4
Yes PAs can intubate, under supervision in their role as AAs, but as a doctor I feel this post suggests that PAs can do these procedures independently and potentially at the detriment of training of doctors who ultimately will be the consultants expected to train PAs...
Being a doctor used to mean something. Politicians no longer value us and management will push Advanced Practice and MAP roles to the forefront of care. My prediction is Advanced Practice takeover is coming and if we dont resist it doctors will become NHS second class citizens.
@DrPJJB
Hey mate. How much student debt do you have? Because I have £107,000. Also that's at 6% linked to RPI and inflation. My 'apprenticeship' is bankrupting me. Please oh wise doctor can you explain to me how I'm meant to pay this off on my apprenticeship salary?
Royal Colleges. Stop setting exams in January and February and then asking us how our Festive season is going and how our mental health and wellness is.
This is the state of play. A very good assessment of the reality of MAP/PA takeover and horrific
#scopecreep
happening across the
#NHS
. Doctors will leave and a superspecialist army of practitioners will provide you with worse, poorly thought out care.
‼️ Awarding FRCP post nominals to someone who hasn't even sat medical school finals let alone MRCP. This is outrageous undermining of the Physician title and role. RCP showing their true colours for political
#oneteam
bullshit. ‼️
@ann_bowman
We have a PA working with us. We go through every single case. It's a bit like working with a senior med student - helpful, but takes a lot of time and energy. There is no statutory guidance on what counts as adequate supervision - and that's risky
Hundreds of qualified doctors would happily work a stand alone SHO/Reg job as a doctor in GP in their community...yet RCGP would rather hire unqualified unregulated non-doctors who can't prescribe. Make it make sense...
'Differently qualified'. This actually insults everyone's intelligence. A paramedic is in a completely different role to a GP so remains less qualified for General Practice. A PA is an assistant to a GP and is also less qualified for medical General Practice. Try Again.
@iDrSunny
@DeanEggitt
@TheBMA
@BMA_GP
Also ‘less-qualified clinicians known as a physician associate (PA).’ Is wrong. They are differently qualified. It’s as if one says a paramedic is less qualified than a doctor. It’s insulting to these groups and really undermines their skills.
@nandwics
Yeah they are NOT highly skilled at diagnosis. A GP is highly skilled at diagnosis with minimal investigation. ALWAYS demand to see a doctor.
❗️❗️This absolutely NOT OK❗️❗️They will never be equivalent to FRCA / FFICM trained Doctors with real medical degrees. We have to put an end to this scope creep madness, or risk losing doctors from Intensive Care forever...
Very pleased to share that Southampton has withdrawn it’s advert for an AA post. 375 doctors signed our petition, your support made a difference. The campaign is not over -6 month pause to consult but together we can overturn proposals.
@BMA_JuniorDocs
@Xeon4f145d96s1
@gaslad
There we go. Some lime light. All PAs need strict supervision. Get them off doctor rotas. Get them out of theatre and clinics. Stop hiring them. Mothball the whole thing. Or more patients will die or come to harm.
A dossier of dodgy practice including Physicians Associates on doctors rotas & using other people's credentials to prescribe - has been handed to the Telegraph
@Cleverclog67596
@ExplosiveEnema2
@rcgp
F2 cannot work unsupervised in PC. They are training grade & largely supernumerary. I would like every Dr , irrespective of end speciality , to spend at least 6/12 rotating through PC from ST1.
It's not abuse. It's patient safety concerns being raised in a system that quashes whistle-blowers and doesn't validate the very real concerns of medical doctors. Medical doctors who should be prioritised. Keep pulling that ladder up.
Imagine being a Physician Associate in the UK right now just trying to get on with your job and reading torrents of abuse about your profession on social media.
We are still learning the place of PAs in the UK health system but please - enough of the scapegoating
‼️This is such a horrific breach of patient safety and such a blatent example of scope creep.... This is a recruiting Job description for an AA from Sheffield...‼️
They might be *just* a trade union. But a trade union of PA and AA trainers who have had enough of scope creep and the devastating effects it has on patients and doctors. This is enormous progress.
The BMA has called for an immediate halt to the recruitment of MAPs (PAs/AAs)
Read the statement below
Doctor or PA? Know the difference
#AskForADoctor
Seeing a medical doctor in general practice means you are less likely to attend the Emergency Department.
Did you know only 43.9% of appointments are now with GPs?
You and your family deserve the highest quality care.
#ItsOkayToAsk
for a doctor.
‼️
@UHSFT
I see you have advertised for an AA post 3 days after a unanimous vote taken by the
@RCoANews
to pause AA recruitment. Your job adverts are also suggesting scope of practice will mean AAs will supervise trainee AAs. This is a serious patient safety concern.‼️
Credentialed Nurse Consultant...Advanced Clinical Practitioner...do AHPs just get to pick their titles now? More evidence of promoting allied roles which treads on junior doctors. I never see posts about doctors achieving mammoth exams like the FRCA / FRCS / FRCEM.
Congratulations to emergency care nurse consultant
@Alisonmariposas
, who has become the first advanced clinical practitioner to be credentialled by
@RCollEM
.
Alison, who works at WHH, started her ACP journey in 2018 as a trainee ACP in acute care, qualifying in 2021.
No one is picking on one another. We are doctors who are rightly raising patient safety concerns in the face of evidence. Evidence of an unregulated workforce playing medicine in an enormous NHS patient experiment with no end goal. Patients will suffer. Doctors will leave.
@dobbyjog
@Dr_BellaR
Not the answer to my comment. I think it’s really really unfair for one profession to pick on another. I feel It has to stop. It’s demeaning to us all.
The tide is turning. And to think we have been referred to as the 'vocal minority'. Medicine is shifting gear and taking back ownership of its profession.
Does regulating physican and anaesthesia associates breach the
@GMCUK
charitable objectives?
We are writing to them to seek clarification. Co-sign the letter here:
How I'm spending strike week: revising for another professional exam which cost £550 and is a gateway assessment to career progression. Without it you can't progress to the next year of training. Fail it? Pay it again. And yes they can kick you out of training for multiple fails
▪️Signing DNACPR form ‘for a young patient’
(after a 2 yr course)
▪️Consulting instagram on whether to wake a neurosurgical patient for an intimate exam
(after a 2 yr course)
▪️These people out-earn doctors by 35%
(after a 2 yr course)
Excitement of a 2nd yr med student
☠️
Case in point: Role confusion. PAs are not associate doctors. They are assistants to doctors. The papers are proving role title confusion whilst reporting on the risks of role creep.
When the phrase "send it to the twitter pizza" actually exists in medical circles... Then you know no one has any faith in your 'formal processes' or lines of whistleblowing.
Is it reasonable to attribute provenance to multiple anonymous anecdotes posted from an anonymous account?
Formal processes exist to report concerns about access to training:
Student > med school > GMC
Trainee > DME > PGDean > GMC
Im more than happy to consider genuine concerns
Dangerous and deranged thinking. Want to examine medical students? Go to medical school. Do foundation years, pass selection interviews for specialty training and then pass some even harder post graduate exams...all whilst working towards a portfolio of medical education.
Doctors aren't trained in safe prescribing. I'd happily take my unsafe prescribing education to Australia thank you very much. What an absolute sellout.
Get told off by theatre staff for not wearing a hat in theatre as it's an "infection risk"... theatre nurse then proceeds to shave our patients pubes into the open atmosphere for his hernia repair. 🙃
@NHS_HealthEdEng
Thank you for absolutely nothing. You have ruined lives and destroyed families. There is nothing positive about your tenure. I only hope a replacement organisation exists to put wellbeing for all healthcare workers first.
Can we please stop using the phrase 'prescribing rights'. The ability to prescribe is earned. No profession has an innate right to prescribe medications that can harm and kill.
This is crazy. The figures recorded of professions consulting on PA regulation. Clearly this was not advertised effectively. We must demand a reconsultation
@TAkbar
@ShaunLintern
Thanks for selling off the profession pal. Read the room. No one wants this; support your SHOs and registrars who have worked far harder to be given training for advanced procedures. Put your PAs on the ward to do what they were 'trained' to do: ward work.
A genuine question. If the PAs can go to the ACCS training, and be taught the same skills on the ward, and do the same service provision, and they can extend their scope of training to ST6 level…
What is actually the point of the training programme?
Thank you for gaslighting us all with long historical threads about the history of medical specialties and allied professions. Your consultation process and roll out of PAs and AAs has been an objective giant car crash. This binfire will have serious patient safety consequences.
Really helpful historical perspective from
@DrLKVaughan
although I’d prefer we have a constructive, respectful and challenging dialogue to shape the future for PAs and AAs rather than an ‘argy bargy’ approach
I have an issue with ACCPs taking the referral bleep. The bleep is a learning tool for registrars to become expert assessors and decision makers as Consultant intensivists. Too many times have I witnessed ACCPs who are demanding they hold it and leave the unit over SPRs.
Really pleased to see
@HelenRSalisbury
stick by her guns and raise PA concerns. She's a HUGE voice in GP care. Please listen to her...she was correct. This is a government push. We deserve more GPs. Not assistants.
Dr colleagues, please read and sign - the GMC intends to register Physician Associates, give them GMC numbers and do NO checks at all about their qualifications or abilities.
‼️Job advert posted after EGM for an AA post... where the job description literally states they will be directly supervised by another AA. Sorry but this is totally against the
@RCoANews
EGM mandate and AGAIN is a genuine patient safety issue. ‼️
This is a problem. No we are not equivalent. If you want doctors and accps to work together you CANNOT make false equivalence. My education is far deeper and far far more expensive.
And you wonder why there is a social apartheid between MAPs and doctors forming. When a professional 'PA company' treats doctors (aka their supervisors) like they are in a playground. I just wonder if they are hiring the right sort of people. Clearly not.
@AWJChadwick
@KeeleyMP
Wow. I’ve just noticed my mortgage reference number is also a seven digit number, calling my mortgage company immediately in case I’ve inadvertently bought a doctor!!
Dammit, I’ve just typed 7654321 into my calculator. Doctors everywhere! Aaah. I’m so confused.
#7digitscare
And so the tide begins to turn...false equivalence, under cutting medical hierarchy and scope creep is finally being recognised as a serious threat to UK medicine.
‼️ Outrageous ... rejecting the EGM and ignoring thousands of anaesthetists. I imagine they would also reject RCoA scope of practice guidance for AAs too ‼️
Why is this even a question? You find a goddamn registrar and you teach them with the CT1 assisting / observing. The AA should be nowhere near this. In fact it looks to me like they have absolutely no place in UK healthcare either.
Question for the anesthesia community. Should an AA (UK version) be performing an awake fibreoptic intubation? Or should they be *helping* the consultant do it? Or should the consultant always be finding a registrar to teach? Is this a skill AA’s should learn?
Pause all PA and AA recruitment. They are demonstrably dangerous. Not only dangerous to patients...but also to doctors; contributing to skill fade and a generation of under trained consultants.
@TAkbar
@lemonslip
@ShaunLintern
I know for a fact your trust doctors are livid at the PA situation there. Multiple meetings, there remains a toxic rift between PAs and doctors.
6 Universities bragging about their students attaining 100% in the PA national exam. This is DIRECT EVIDENCE that PA qualifications are the product of an educational qualification mill. The USA suffers from the same problem with NP qualifications. Cheapening qualifications = harm
There is a lot of talk about the PA National Exam
So here are 6 of the top performing Unis for the written PANE, all achieving a 100% pass rate!
Amazing!
Nothing strange about that at all…
@simontutt88
@cannula_service
@Dr_Sarah_Bellum
And here in lies the problem. Making false equivalence is not ok. You clearly value yourself as equal if not better in scope than an ED ST3. So what can they do that you can't? Why do you have different job titles? Seems like you're the same....according to you
‼️ Daily Mail reporting on the absolute dangers of role creep by PAs and AAs ‼️
....Would YOU want to be treated by a 'medic' with two years' training?
#nhs
#rolecreep
#anaesthesiaassociates
Here's your new trash UK acute care provision. ED is already circling the drain. This is the view from inside the plughole. PAs in fucking Resus. RESUS.
IV fluids in someone in heart failure.
A nebuliser for some reason.
An interpretation of a CXR that a new medical student could have done better.
Auscultation through clothing.
For the pedant - examining (sic)from the wrong side of the bed.
Handcart/ hell
Couldn't disagree more. We need more senior decisions makers and more senior generalists. What we don't need is a pseudo profession watering down the knowledge pool.
@DocAnonX
I’ve worked as a PA for 8 years, I doubt much will change. I might look at becoming a PA GP Partner as an extra challenge. PAs aren’t going anywhere and at some point you’re going to have to work with them.
FAO GPs in the UK❗️
Unfortunately you’re no longer required due to ‘new ways of working’.
Don’t worry though, nobody is replacing doctors, and if you’re against MAPs - you’re a bully.
These are our assistants seeking parity by skipping medical school and looking to take post graduate exams so they can become independent. If you want to do doctor stuff....then do the hard graft and go to medical school. Consultants stop enabling this.
@elinlowri
Yeah thanks for that. You're pushing doctors out of the NHS by promoting and elevating all other roles but junior doctors. At a time when we need your support the most, we are let down.
Stopping paying fees is a dumb move. Mainly because peoples' livelihoods depend on being GMC registered. We have proven bloody good at protesting. So I think a MASSIVE picket outside GMC head office is a good start...
Time to stop paying our fees.
I am serious.
Many doctors will be paid less than PAs and yet have to pay £433 to the GMC, whereas the higher paid PA pays £221.
@TheBMA
@JamesLynchGTC
Yep ALL. Of. IT. Medicine is having a paradigm shift. We need to make some clear hard lines. Doctor work for doctors. Priorities for doctors for all procedural exposure. Training protected. ACPs for ward jobs and assistance and narrow technical roles.
Not only is University Hospital Southampton ignoring the EGM by
@RCoANews
, they are also ignoring all safety concerns about supervision of AAs.
They are using Consultant Anaesthetists and AAs as interchangeable when it comes to supervising AAs…
National recruitment into anaesthetics run by Band 4 and 5 admin staff copying and pasting wrong data into an excel spreadsheet... leading to instantly ruined application scores and jobless doctors:
These are the folk at the top. Their views are the antithesis of the young doctors desperate to make medicine a rewarding valued career again. We are striking for the future survival of social healthcare. Not for malevolent political discourse. We must change the colleges.
I have just cancelled my Direct Debit to the BMA. I cannot remain a member of an organisation that has such scant regard for patient care that they arrange simultaneous strikes by consultants and juniors. Totally in acceptable
I seem to have opened a can of worms in highlighting ACCP roles. Yes this is entirely down to FICM and local consultant oversight. No this problem won't go away. We have to work with the college to create some hard lines of scope and put more energy into valuing trainees.
This is appalling.
Mid 50s, cancer red flags ignored by PAs for 8 months.
This could be your dad.
The UK is failing patients, and planning to fail many more with the dangerous long term workforce plan.
@TheSalariedPA
There will ALWAYS be apartheid when PAs don't do the hard years of hell called medical school and post graduate training...and then do all the stuff we have been striving to do for over a decade. No. You do ward round documentation and scut work. That's the role. Assistants.
@LouiseSophs
Permission granted to feel monumentally aggrieved and ferociously fucked off by the level of consultant sellout occurring in your trust. Get angry because nothing every changed with apathy or mild levels of peeve.