Sadly, as a Glaswegian and with a juvenile and medical school influenced sense of humour that 60 years on this earth hasn’t tamed, I laughed at this. I laughed lots. Sorry.
My finest clinical moment.
A patient attends clinic in floods of tears stating their lymphoma is back as they have a purple lump on their back.
My assessment:
1. They don’t have relapsed lymphoma.
2. They shouldn’t eat wine gums in bed.
I am a diagnostic god!
I was a commissioned officer for 30 years. I’ve served as a medical officer in Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan and seen what conflict is like.
This is insulting bordering on crass.
@Johnincarlisle
Dear John,
It’s called a chicken fat thrombus. It occurs post mortem due to blood stasis. It’s been observed for decades. It’s not a new ‘pathology’.
How would I know? I’m a haematologist who used to do post mortems in the past.
This may upset some people. My job as a consultant is to treat patients and to educate trainees in my specialty. It is not to give validation to unregulated, dubiously qualified individuals who believe normal training in healthcare need not apply to them.
As an aspiring cardiologist i didn’t take A/L on my Cardiology F1 rotation so i can make the most of the exposure on Cardiology. (Major L, I was left on the ward to do ward jobs anyway). I requested STUDY LEAVE to attend clinics. Can you appreciate why this is infuriating?
@Nomoretrust8
@Johnincarlisle
They are a post mortem finding that will be there in all dead bodies if you look for it. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Covid vaccines.
This is a thread.
Today I carried out an enhanced appraisal on a colleague who I rate very highly. They are clearly able, skilled and caring. No issues as regards ability to practice. I myself would be ecstatic to be treated by them and my standards are stratospherically high.
IV fluids in someone in heart failure.
A nebuliser for some reason.
An interpretation of a CXR that a new medical student could have done better.
Auscultation through clothing.
For the pedant - examining (sic)from the wrong side of the bed.
Handcart/ hell
🚨Stop & watch the future of the NHS‼️
My blood is boiling:
‘I’d not heard of physician associates until about 3 years ago’ (now in Resus alone)
‘We work exactly like doctors do just different training’
&
‘The medic is confident she’s addressed the most urgent of issues’
☠️
As a consultant haematologist I find this position by my professional society disturbing and I disagree with profoundly. There are many doctors who wish to pursue a career in haematology which is understaffed medically. PAs are not the answer.
The NHS workforce is widely acknowledged to be facing a severe shortage of staff numbers.
Read the BSH statement on Physician Associates and related roles on our website here:
#BSHNews
#BSH
Put bluntly, you don’t replace a highly educated medical or nursing based silk purse, with all the skill acquired over years; with a pig’s ear of unregulated, poorly trained individuals with attitude.
@LouiseAllard18
You qualified in 1991. I qualified in 1985 and would not have the temerity to post what you have given the entirely different circumstances being a junior doctor involve now compared to then. You should take a hard look at yourself.
The irony of doctors being accused of snobbery and defensiveness over PAs by an old Harrovian, Conservative hereditary peer, with issues surrounding his role in PPE acquisition, is interesting.
In any event, I doubt any medical care he might need will ever involve PAs
@DrAsifQasim
Are you seriously saying that PAs dont have a role? That the old set of clinical roles can keep up with the operational demands of an aging, sicker population? That you can guarantee that the existing workforce and training capacity for new staff will meet the nation's needs?…
Shrödinger’s PA. The one that didn’t want to study hard to become a doctor, but yet found their training as a PA more ‘intensive’ than genuine medical training.
@dgraemestewart
Amazingly a lot of PA propaganda will state something similar to “I didn’t want to have to study so much to be a doctor” and yet their doublethink allows them to state how intense their PA course was
My appraisee is not the only doctor to feel this.
As such, can we not just accept the most highly educated and trained members of the NHS are fed up with being taken for granted and thought to be easily replaced by PAs, AAs or other quasimedics.
A PA stating they follow the same pathway as medical practitioners in haematology and ‘run outpatient clinics alongside my consultants’.
When you’ve acquired an MRCP, a FRCPath and a CCT we’ll talk. Until then you appear to be an egregious self promoter with no right to be so.
Current President of
@FPARCP
asserts that PAs follow a similar pathway to Drs post graduation & that it would be appropriate for a PA to answer OOH referrals in haematology
This is not in keeping with a *dependent* role
It is vital that this view is repudiated by
@RCPhysicians
This is Nadeem Moghal the ex CEO of a private company (DMC Healthcare) that provides outsourced medical care to the NHS stating an absolute untruth about medical school training v PA training. Given this role I wonder why this might be?
I also want to be sure when I personally need medical care, the individual providing it isn’t pretending they’re medical/nursing qualified when they’re not.
The GMC Director of Education and Standards who prefers retweeting the wittering of a Tory peer with the reverse Midas touch on PPE to engaging with the clinicians who actually employ him.
However, this ability has come at a personal cost to them in relation to their emotional health. The current state of the NHS in Scotland is that it demands more in delivery than it gives in support. Most particularly of its senior medical staff.
The GMC isn’t covering itself in glory over the PA issue. ‘Sure, we’ll register you and give you a number but we won’t regulate you’.
Why can we not just admit PAs are not the solution but proper training and career structures for actual doctors is? Is it that difficult?
Attempted to hide identities as much as pos. Sent this and found it too damning not to share.
PT presents around 3pm. A doctor doesn’t appear to be contacted for support or help, and instead a Facebook group of PAs (PAAUK) consulted instead. PT in HB sent to a&e not until 6pm.
Dear
@gmcuk
,
Are you absolutely confident; with the BMA, several Royal Colleges, other doctors’ organisations and individual clinicians expressing deep and growing concern over them; yous stance on PAs is correct?
🔴NEW: Physician associates accused of‘illegally’ prescribing at dozens of NHS trusts and missing life-threatening diagnoses, dossier claims.
@TheDA_UK
’s survey of 600+ medics comes as
@TheBMA
says “still time” to stop “dangerous” PA regulation 🧵
PAs have neither the training nor ability to provide patient care. Being ‘resilient’ when you diminish the quality of medical care to patients is nothing of which to be proud.
The chance of me or any other doctor ever being jealous of a PA is nil.
The chance of a PA having any insight into how poorly trained, arrogant, personally unaccountable and dangerous to patients they are? Nil as well. The PA experiment in the UK needs to stop.
It took me 12 years from graduation plus two sets of PG exams to become a consultant. 7 years ‘experience’ on top of an unaccredited degree does not a specialist make…
@JimBethell
@DrAsifQasim
The irony of doctors being accused of snobbery and defensiveness over PAs by an old Harrovian, Conservative hereditary peer, with issues surrounding his role in PPE acquisition, is interesting.
In any event, I bet any medical care he might need won’t ever involve PAs.
I spent 5 years at medical school and a further 12 years in postgraduate training to become eligible to be a consultant.
Apparently this was a waste of time.
Dear Colin,
Why exactly are you and the GMC tone deaf on the concerns of doctors over PAs? It’s now moved from being patronising to downright insulting.
To be clear - the below message is incorrect and constitutes deliberate misinformation - I did not say Consultant Physician Associates are planned - and indeed it would not be for the regulator to make such a decision.
Twitter/X is fascinating.
Me - I’m a doctor, an ex army officer, vaccine advocate and a PA critic.
X-land - You’re not a real doctor, a useless reservist, shill of big Pharma and ‘not kind’.
Can somebody tell me why so many pulchritudinous Asiatic young ladies find my posts on UK medical practice so fascinating that they wish to be my friend? I’ve asked my online Nigerian Prince friend who’s managing my finances but he’s not got back to me.
One wonders what the GMC will say about the products of Aston Medical School having been assessed by non regulated individuals with less training than those they are assessing.
@drcolinm
In 1995 I as the very senior SR and a brand new SR in haematology argued vehemently about the management of a patient. Lots of growling, dislike and crossness was generated.
Our 26th wedding anniversary was last May.
Hi Effie,
Like most of my medical colleagues we are of above average intelligence otherwise we wouldn’t have got to where we are. We don’t earn a ‘fortune’ and I, as a consultant, drive an electric Audi, not a Porsche, which I can’t really afford but like.
Junior doctors are the modern equivalent of aristocrats. They rarely have above average intelligence, but worked hard at school & now earn a fortune more than those who pay their wages. After buying their Porsche Cayenne they spend the rest of their life bossing us around
The GMC is no longer fit for purpose. It’s tone deaf to the medical profession and poorly led.
It is, in fact, the Post Office Scandal of the 21st century in embryo.
Clare Barton, Assistant Director of the GMC, explaining that the GMC wants new legislation because the Medical Act apparently hasn't been updated since 1983...
...I take it we just ignore the reams of amendments then?
We’re in Belfast for the last of our UK education round tables.
-
#GoodMedicalPractice2024
- Transforming medical education
- Fairer training cultures
- Update on AAs and PAs
#MedEd
#MedTwitter
Excuse my bluntness
@drcolinm
but like so many of my colleagues, I’ve reached a bit of an impasse.
The disrespectfulness & utter contempt shown to 🇬🇧 Drs by ‘the powers that be’ has been off the scale.
Most of us stopped trusting
@NHSEngland
&
@DHSCgovuk
some time ago….
1/4
Not just PAs but senior PAs! Ones that can provide advice to actual doctors! We are truly through the looking glass now.
This needs to be stopped right now.
@r_hirschman
@Johnincarlisle
Dear John,
@Johnincarlisle
It’s called a chicken fat thrombus. It occurs post mortem due to blood stasis. It’s been observed for decades. It’s not a new ‘pathology’.
FYI I’m a haematologist who used to do PMs in the past when a histopathology trainee.
Stop misleading people.
@IncogAssociate
@makepumps666
@TheSooperCynic
When I was a non consultant but a doctor I introduced myself thus. “Hello, I’m Dr Neilson, the (insert grade here). That’s called honesty.
When a PA introduces themselves as, ‘a medical specialist’ or ‘one of the medical team’ that’s disingenuous.
We now switch to a consultant perspective.
What sort of consultant? Unspecified, could be the consultant ward clerk.
"Having an IR PA has revolutionised our day-to-day practice."
Really? Are these words you wish to be remembered by?
It sounds ridiculous.
If you want an example of a post that is both patronising and tone deaf to what the reality of medicine is currently, this is an excellent one.
#ladderpuller
I am looking forward to sharing all of the amazing positive stories I have about our PAs here at
@sashnhs
at the
@RCPhysicians
EGM this week. I know many of you are feeling low, but please remember how awesome you are and such a valued part of our
#oneteam
.
#Medicineisbrilliant
We have recently seen discussions across social media about upcoming graduation ceremonies for our Medicine and Physician Associate programmes.
Read our full statement in response to these discussions here:
The past few days have truly highlighted how compassionate and caring Lord Bethell is.
Remember: Lord Bethell wants you to be happy and well...
Unless you're a doctor.
Or a patient.
It’s very simple. If you are a consultant you train those less senior and experienced so they can become senior in their turn. It’s part of the deal. If you rely on PAs it potentially calls into question your integrity on this.
@UKGastroDr
What is starting to become apparent to me is that many consultants view the idea of PAs 'freeing up doctors from simpler work' to mean specifically 'freeing up me, the consultant, from the type of work I'd normally have to train an SHO or SpR to do every 6 months'.
@drcolinm
@DrLKVaughan
From your own X profile you work for the regulator that’s enabled this anger and hold honorary and visiting professorships at two universities that offer PA degrees. As such, you’re not exactly neutral.
"It is time the doctors faced into the problem of this toxic workplace culture and started holding colleagues accountable for their professionalism."
My comments in
@pulsetoday
on workplace bullying by doctors in the NHS.
Why? It’s not as if there aren’t enough medical graduates, the ones that have trained for years rather than months, that could do the job better, more quickly and with less supervision.
'Each PA should have a named consultant or GP, who agrees on the scope of practice for that individual PA.'
Not just any Tom, Dick and Harry.
Certainly not anti PA BMA members.
Ever get the impression it’s being made up as it goes along? All doctors are regulated by the GMC, not just those in training. If a registered (sic) PA is in breach of GMP what will the GMC do exactly?
@drcolinm
@Molly2323232323
@Xeon4f145d96s1
@VincentVanGrump
@ukmat82
@GMC
OK, what it says is we wont regulate any post qualification training for AAs and PAs. Like Consultants, SAS and LE doctors - they're not in training either. But all registrants will follow the same professional standards set out in Good Medical Practice.
When I graduated in 1984, and became a junior doctor, I had to pay my GMC membership, professional indemnity insurance, and for ongoing professional exams and Royal College membership. Just as junior doctors do now. BUT…
1/
The public consultation wasn’t that public and the majority of responders were PAs&AAs.
Accordingly, mibbe you should do it again more fully this time? No?
There are ongoing conversations around the future regulation of PAs & AAs. We recognise there are strong feelings about some issues. In this thread we address some of the key points we’ve heard. (1/8)
Dear GMC,
You have stated that legislation to allow regulation/registration of PAs would be completed by the end of 2023 with registration starting in 2024.
There has, in fact, been no legislation listed for the 23/24 parliamentary session at all.
Dear GMC,
On the basis that shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted is your preferred modus operandi re scope and regulation of PA practice, care to comment on this?
Doctors to government: “Physician Associates are making our jobs harder.”
Government to doctors: “no, they’re making your jobs easier.”
Theres a word for that.
Just a reminder that
#oneteam
and
#bekind
were used to shut up doctors and enable someone to continue to murder babies.
When doctors speak up, listen to them.
A PA performed an invasive procedure on a patient with a bladder infection and the patient died 48 hrs later from sepsis
➡️The c̴o̴v̴e̴r̴u̴p̴ review team report authors involved the PA who did the procedure.😳
How could this have any hope of being independent? That's why in…
@mehercle
It’s not. It’s everything to do with self promotion. He’s wearing that uniform as a prop and posturing for publicity.
He is taking the piss out of those who serve, who have served and who have died for their country. He’d never serve. To me, who has, this is grotesque.
What’s the point of peer review, MDT meetings or M&M review when a PA with less experience and training in medicine than anybody else can just get on with it? Utterly appalling.
An early slideshow from a former President of
@FPARCP
Suggests that ~94% of patients seen by PAs require *no* supervision, and that they are autonomous decision makers
Tired and feeling like a broken record... 😮💨
As a GP I refer a patient on a 2 week wait pathway with suspected cancer to an ENT specialist - and it is triaged by a physician associate (not a doctor, 2 year training course)
How have we come to this?
How can this possibly be safe?
@Doc_IonaCollins
@TomStocks1982
If you want to know why junior doctors are leaving the NHS it’s for reasons like this, pay and the inappropriate use and employment of PAs.
It needs to change and Medical Royal Colleges need to lead this change.
The reason trusts act like this towards doctors is because they rotate. If you rotate you don’t deserve to have your basic needs met. These amenities are only for permanent staff.
At least, that’s the case at
@LivHospitals
Surely there’s an easier solution here
@jamessumnerNHS
Just to put this into context I worked as a medico-legal adviser to the MDDUS for 5 years . There was a disproportionate number of non UK medical graduates referred to the GMC, for less severe issues and with harsher outcomes than UK ones.
It should be pointed out that the educational resources that were subsequently put in place to allow nurses and pharmacists to prescribe was considerably more than a 2 year PA degree (sic).
I will not tolerate extremism, discrimination or hate speech in our NHS.
It is damaging when incidents arise of individuals employed within the NHS espousing racist or extremist views.
When I was a wee boy I played doctors too! Then I did the whole proper medical training thing. This lot don’t even know what they are being taught is nonsense.
Examining a clothed patient’s abdomen? Not taking a pulse properly? Here’s your new medical kit. For shame Keele.
If any politician from whatever party, or any journalist whatsoever, states, ‘We paid for your training’ to doctors:
1. The bulk of current medical graduates paid fees to study medicine in the UK.
2. Stop abusing very intelligent and dedicated people.
Thank you.
Medical associates are working beyond their competence.
Backdoor changes will further confuse the public, put patients in danger and only benefit big business and profits. Our NHS needs more actual doctors, not less.
My latest 👇🏾
@stmarnockZ
The most privileged thing a Consultant can do (apart from providing good care to patients),is to train the next generation of doctors. If that’s every 4,6 or 12 months repeatedly, then that’s what you do. Training a PA once then sitting back not giving a shit is frankly appalling
“Highly skilled at diagnosing conditions and can perform physical examinations if needed.”
I don’t think so but after 38 years as a doctor what would I know?
4 yrs training, with half done with medical students, equipping the qualified professional to make decisions about patient management as generalist medical practitioners.
Explain to me how this isn't a doctor.
I had an identical conversation with a PA socially, intially without revealing what I do. When I did they metaphorically sha* themselves and non metaphorically ran away.
I met a PA recently - on a more social level - it was a fucking disaster. In the time I spoke with them I was told
1. Getting into PA training is more demanding than medicine
2. PA training just like medicine but condensed
3. No one cares about doctors
1/ We are delighted to share that the House of Lords will now hear the debate on PA/AA regulation in the main chamber, following DAUK's call for motions of regret. This crucial discussion ensures the legislation undergoes thorough scrutiny.
🚨🚨🚨Homeopathy, English Lit, Anthropology, Banking, Geography, Zoology ➡️ 2 year course ➡️ "GMC registered medical model professional"🚨🚨🚨
These are NOT substitutes for medical school and a PA can NEVER be a substitute for a doctor.
This is now getting ridiculous. Treat actual doctors like dirt, but have a jolly, happy smiley process for individuals with no registration, regulation and minimal training.
Recruitment for doctors-in-training - impersonal, centralised, anonymous, miserable.
Recruitments for Associates-in-training - parley with our mateys and see to it they land the job.
Why the inconsistency
@NHSE_WTE
?
@BritSocHaem
This is the point at which any respect I have for the BSH disappears. I’ve been a member of it for over thirty years and my wife served as Secretary. Promoting the poorly trained and unregulated rather than actual doctors to treat haematology patients is dreadful.