Keep hearing that PAs have studied 2 years of medicine
No, they have not
PAs have studied two years of PA studies, an unaccredited & unregulated course
Nobody can explain what PA studies is...
Just as nobody can actually explain what the role of a PA is...
This is not an isolated experience. I know of PAs from different UK locations reporting that they have been told they are having a crash course in medicine, condensing everything Drs know into 2 yrs, like a super-intense medical degree.
Say it often enough and it sounds true.
@Dr_Done_
"Being a safe practitioner is making mistakes and learning from them"
No, it's really not
This is not baking a cake where you can afford to keep making mistakes until you perfect the recipe
Patients are people
They are not guinea pigs for PAs to make mistakes with
@IncogAssociate
The guidance is for your supervising doctors
Doctors who choose to supervise PAs/AAs will use guidance to ensure safe supervision
Some doctors may choose to ignore the guidance...
But would be pretty hard to defend that decision if a patient suffers any harm, wouldn't it?
PAs go to PA school, do PA studies & PANE exam
Doctors go to medical school, study medicine & do MLA exam. Doctors then do postgraduate training & exams.
TWO entirely separate & discrete paths
And NEVER THE TWAIN SHALL MEET
No crossover
No equivalence
No comparison
PAs being given direct access to the Foundation Programme
While Foundation Drs across the country are sat on placement lists, unsure where they are going to live
@NavinaEvans
, why are these posts not going to Drs?
Why are Drs being replaced?
Credit:
@Dr_Done_
@AliJaneMoore
Can we please ask
@VictoriaAtkins
to spend her 3-week Christmas holiday mastering her brief?
Now she knows that physiciansโ assistants earn more than junior doctors, she can make a fair offer to junior doctors & stop the strikes.
Patients deserve better.
@PPaauk
Why would FPA have anything to do with defining and setting scope?
PA is not a profession
PAs are dependent & must work under the supervision of a consultant doctor/GP
The supervising doctors will define and set the scope.
Do PAs really not understand this?
Hahahaha This is the most ridiculous thing that PAs have ever done...(and believe me, that is saying something!)
Loving the 50 HOURS of CPD being equivalent of 2 YEARS of GP training...
There's just too much to laugh at!
Keep hearing that PAs have studied 2 years of medicine
No, they have not
PAs have studied two years of PA studies, an unaccredited & unregulated course
Nobody can explain what PA studies is...
Just as nobody can actually explain what the role of a PA is...
@LittlePersonDoc
@RCPhysicians
Yeah, pretty much. We were told we were covering most of the same clinical content and sitting exams from the same question bank. I now know this clearly was not the case.
Well as
@drkeithsiau
says:
"Doctors in general should remain professional on social media as the content we post stays on record and could have consequences."
But why then has
@drkeithsiau
deleted his own content?
This is the plan
We'll hear: "PAs don't need to be supervised by consultant doctor/GP"
Followed by: "PAs don't need to be supervised by a doctor, they can be supervised by a "senior" PA."
And finally: "PAs don't need to be supervised by anyone. PAs are independent."
You know precisely where this is heading - we will have โleadโ or โprincipalโ PAs or consultant ACPs who will be supervising these PAs soon - citing the โloss of efficiencyโ
Yet this is artificially created loss of efficiency by not creating enough GPs - who donโt needโฆ
But I'm disappointed because I feel like this is a lost opportunity. There was no engagement with any other stakeholders, there was no seeing any other point of view
@glambystefania
@manLikeTeaa
@SecretPhysician
Are you telling us that YOU make the decision to stop medications? And then ask a doctor to physically stop the medication?
Something that you as a dependent PA are not trained or qualified to do
Oh, and it's also illegal for PAs to do this
PA explaining what a PA is
Jesus wept
โIโm one of the haematology team.Iโm a physician associate. That means Iโm not a doctor. I might look like a doctor, I do lots of things that traditionally only a doctor might do, but itโs important for you to understand Iโm not a doctorโ'.
@NHSE_WTE
Here we go...
The pathway already exists. It's called GEM-graduate entry medicine.
But why not just use the fully trained GPs who are currently unemployed because ARRS funding doesn't include GPs?
GMC states that the doctor โmust be confident that the colleague [they] delegate to has the necessary knowledge, skills, & training to carry out the task, or that they will be adequately supervised to ensure safe care.โ
MUST be confident
So nothing can be delegated to PAs/AAs
Teaching postgraduate physician associates this lunchtime...going through everything gastrointestinal!
Theyโre very clever so need to bring my A-game!
Just imagine if all the time, energy & money which is currently being spent on PAs & AAs was actually invested in doctors...
Just imagine if ALL consultant doctors supported their 'junior' doctors in the same way as they support PAs/AAs...
#ThePAProject
#nhs
#patientsafety
1/4 It is sad to see the very public onslaught on Physicianย Associates. We are a unit with a proud history of teaching, training and investing in our junior doctors at all levels. We are an
@RCSnews
accredited fellowship training centre in Robotic surgery (
@IntuitiveSurg
)
Change the names back to anaesthesia ASSISTANTS and physician ASSISTANTS
This has been tabled by
@ClaudiaWebbe
Is your MP going to sign and support this motion?
Tag your MP and let's find out...
Hearing a lot of talk about how PAs/AAs have been misled & should be compensated
I would argue that medical students and doctors have been misled, and treated appallingly
In fact, they have been and continue to be treated far worse than PAs/AAs
Will doctors be compensated?
What do I think about AAs?
I wish Iโd been one.
Iโd be at least ยฃ50k better off with amazing training. Iโd be spending my life giving anaesthetics in daytime hours.
Theyโre living the dream while medics are in the bin. Medics must stay in the bin &
#BeKind
. Or else.
<ends>
Two years of PA studies is NOT equivalent to two years of medicine
& two years of PA studies is most certainly NOT equivalent to a degree in medicine
If you're saying that it is, you're going to be paying out a lot of money to compensate medical students & doctors
PAs being given direct access to the Foundation Programme
While Foundation Drs across the country are sat on placement lists, unsure where they are going to live
@NavinaEvans
, why are these posts not going to Drs?
Why are Drs being replaced?
Credit:
@Dr_Done_
@AliJaneMoore
The
#RCPEGM
went well
Thank you
@RCPhysicians
for confirming what we already knew:
- RCP is knowingly responsible for PA/AA debacle
- RCP has no interest in sorting out the mess they have made
- RCP has no interest in protecting
#NHS
patients
BUT RCP WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE
@ColinaCoco
PA is not a profession
PAs are dependent and require supervision.
The mistakes of PAs are carried by the supervising consultant/GP
So no, PAs do not 'bear the weight of responsibility that sometimes our errors cost lives'.
And no, it's not bullying, it's about patient safety
Why would FPA have anything to do with defining and setting scope?
PA is not a profession
PAs are dependent & must work under the supervision of a consultant doctor/GP
The supervising doctors will define and set the scope.
Do PAs really not understand this?
NHS Employers acknowledges that todayโs BMA guidance on scope for another professional group was developed without input from FPA or MAPs. MAPs are not BMA members. Employers responds to BMA guidance on the role of MAPs | NHS Employers
This is statement from
@FPARCP
Where is the statement from
@RCPhysicians
?
Why are
@RCPhysicians
council not supporting and representing their actual paying members-DOCTORS?
Get ready for Medicine 2024!
At past events, weโve been joined by 1,400 delegates for interactive learning, networking and wellbeing activities.
Join us on April 25โ26 at the RCP at Regentโs Park in London and online for another insightful conference.
But PAs and AAs have never wanted to be doctors
And PAs and AAs would never want to train be doctors
And PAs and AAs would never draw any false equivalence with doctors
So where are all the PAs and AAs rushing to tell us what a stupid suggestion this is?
"If we want to tackle the crisis in GP numbers, we should establish a pathway for physician associates to go on to train as doctors and for newly qualified doctors to go straight into five yearsโ training as GPs."
scapegoating
noun [u]
blaming Physician Associates for issues that predate Physician Associates.
the act of blaming a person or group for something bad that has happened or that someone else has done:
E.g. the scapegoating of PAs for the problems faced by UK doctors.
@UMAPsUK
Hahahaha This is the most ridiculous thing that PAs have ever done...(and believe me, that is saying something!)
Loving the 50 HOURS of CPD being equivalent of 2 YEARS of GP training...
There's just too much to laugh at!
Ladies and gentleman, your future MAPs union.
@UMAPsUK
sent this as a professional press release. No, really.
Some notes:
- I don't have a website?
- My "locum wallet lining" has seen me earn less than I earned as a salaried FY1!
An example of how UK healthcare is viewed from abroad.
Our primary care system is seen as an example of how not to run a service.
A sad state of affairs.
@drmattuk
@JanetEastham
@TheDA_UK
@TheBMA
This is why
#ThePAProject
must end NOW
This is not a game
This is affecting
#NHS
patients every single day
Real people & their families are suffering
Sadly, what has happened in the past cannot be undone, BUT action MUST be taken to prevent further patient harm & deaths
Are you telling us that YOU make the decision to stop medications? And then ask a doctor to physically stop the medication?
Something that you as a dependent PA are not trained or qualified to do
Oh, and it's also illegal for PAs to do this
@manLikeTeaa
@SecretPhysician
Take things into context. The responsibility ultimately relies on me for that task to be done!!! If I donโt tell the doctor to do it and my patient deteriorates whoโs fault do you think it is ? The doctor I didnโt make aware of? Please relax.
The end is not in sight..
@gmcuk
have said they will REGISTER AAs and PAs
However,
@gmcuk
have also said that they will NOT REGULATE AAs and PAs
This is becoming a bigger and bigger mess by the day...
Since the inception of Anaesthesia Associates (then anaesthetic practitioners) , AAs have been told by many we need regulation and registration, thankfully the end is almost insight, it been a far too long time coming. (This should have been done years ago)
There is NO EVIDENCE to show that PAs and AAs are safe.
There is NO EVIDENCE to show that PAs and AAs are cost-effective.
In fact, there is NO EVIDENCE to show any benefit at all from PAs or AAs.
@RCPhysicians
@NHSEngland
A PA has no business clerking patients in ED, seeing pts in GP or managing patients in resus. You need to define the scope of work and limit how trusts use them. They are a amazing resource but to help doctors with admin and as runners not play doctors and risk and cost lives
This is beyond belief now
@RCPhysicians
need to get their act together before the EGM tomorrow
No way that
@DrSarahClarke
can chair the EGM now
Thank goodness for the integrity of the fellows listed on this letter
Tomorrow (13 March), there will be an Extraordinary General Meeting of the Royal College of Physicians on Physician Associates. We called this meeting because of concerns about patient safety. Please read and circulate our STATEMENT OF CONCERN about how the EGM is being set up.
This may be an own goal from
@AoMRC
Excluding
@TheBMA
paves the way for
@TheBMA
to take a much harder stance
Expect
@TheBMA
will be issuing further guidance advising doctors to stop supervising PAs/AAs altogether...
We are extremely disappointed
@AoMRC
has excluded
@TheBMA
from a meeting to discuss MAPs and doctors in training despite the inclusion of other key stakeholders including
@NHSEngland
,
@gmcuk
and ATDC. [1/3]
@MerseyPensioner
members held
@C_MPartnership
to account over replacing doctors w cheaper, unqualified staff & the lack of accountability of this board which holds power over what rationed postcode lottery of services are on offer. Services cut to make profit
@fascinatorfun
Would you be surprised to learn that all those who work for
@GMCUK
are given private medical cover?
So none of those working for
@gmcuk
will ever have to see a PA or AA
Just imagine how doctors who are unemployed or being made redundant must feel...
PAs/AAs should be grateful that they only gave up 2 years of their life to do PA studies
You really should have spent the time researching and explaining to the British public why physician associates (assistants to doctors) are paid more than fully qualified doctors.
Why are fully qualified doctors being replaced by PAs and AAs?
@VictoriaAtkins
@ranelagh75
@IncogAssociate
Absolutely!
And why would FPA have anything to do with defining and setting scope?
PAs are dependent & must work under the supervision of a consultant doctor/GP
The supervising doctors will define and set the scope.
Do PAs really not understand this?
Employing "more staff in general practice" is not helping
Need to employ more GPs AND retain the GPs that you already have
Why not take the ARRS funding & the pharmacy first funding & add it to the global sum?
GP practices can then spend this money employing actual GPs
In our primary care recovery plan we said we'd increase appointments, employ more staff in General Practice and tackle the 8 oโ clock rush. We delivered over 348 million appointments in 2023 โ 19.4 million more than 2022 and nearly 1.4 million appointments every working day...7/x
Just imagine if a PA caused a patient harm
The patient takes legal action against the PA's 'supervising' GP for clinical negligence
Could
@rcgp
also be liable for allowing PAs to work unsupervised in primary care?
End
#ThePAProject
now
#patientsafety
#nhs
Hi
@RCGP
You say in this article that there were errors in the case study...
Yet here is a podcast of the same PA saying they see 28 patients a day...
Consisting of "anything and everything", including babies
What was the error?
@pulsetoday
If only this was not so serious...
Because it's absolutely hilarious
The peer telling the story of how a PA told her poor husband that his burnt mouth could be cancer & referring urgently...
Is surely an example of why
#ThePAProject
must end
But no, she supports the SI
The government is trying to push this legislation through on the quiet.
It's happening on Wednesday 17th January 2024.
Will
@UKLabour
MPs be opposing this legislation?
โTheโฆPAโฆfound to be involved in a number of serious events, including missing a brain haemorrhage.
We had one report at Aberdeen that suggested a PA has held the consultant bleep in the stroke speciality.โ
When will we stop screaming
#elitism
#bekind
?
Issues discussed and your views/opinions will be collated and taken to the RCGP council meeting, by your Faculty council rep, which will take place on 8th March 2024
Check your region / faculty, and get in touch asap!
๐งตEnd 8/8
@natalieben
@TheGreenParty
That would be incredibly unfair
If PAs wish to study medicine, they should apply via the usual channels for GEM
GEM is very competitive so there should be no free passes into GEM for PAs
I have sympathies for ministers in these kind of situations but I'd also say for hot topics they are expecting, they need to be briefed better. I know she hasn't been in the post for long and did her very best in the situation, but could be better.
@SecretPhysician
Patient was seen by PA at GP practice at 3pm?
Then PA calls OOH GP at 6pm ish?
Where was the patient between 3pm & 6pm?
In the gp surgery? Or had the patient been sent home by PA?
Where was the PA's supervising GP?
Why was PA asking OOH GP, and not their supervising GP?
Concerning to hear that some of the
@RCPhysicians
senior leadership is allegedly recommending to vote down an EGM motion without gathering elected councillors views.
Might be wise for
@RCPhysicians
to take legal advice about the things they have admitted in the
#RCPEGM
...
Any patients & their families who come to harm IN THE FUTURE because of the PA/AA roll-out will now be able to take legal action against
@RCPhysicians
Back to it, this clip talks about the fiscal and fiduciary responsibilities the RCP have. Although not shown in this particular clip (I'll include it in the thread later), mentions of millions in reparations/ law-suits/ class actions is made.
@GMB
@susannareid100
@edballs
Keep hearing that physician associates have studied 2 years of medicine
No, they have not
PAs have studied 2 years of PA studies, an unaccredited & unregulated course
Nobody can explain what PA studies is...
Just as nobody can actually explain what the role of a PA is...
Don't worry
@KeeleyMP
, you did your best.
There was no debate, we all saw that it was a done deal from the start of the committee meeting today
But thank you for trying
#PhysiciansAssociates
and
#AnaesthesiaAssociates
After further consultation, & flood of representations, I have put down "fatal motion" that _could_ stop government plans.
But want to be clear, I don't expect to be able to, without Labour Party support
@ExplosiveEnema2
@FPARCP
@RCPhysicians
Look at the wording!
Medicine- 2 years "basic science"
Trying to make it look like PAs have done more...
Trying to equivalate the medicine and PA course
Ridiculous
@ExplosiveEnema
I draw no equivalence between medical students & PAs
But would the trust let a medical student cover a locum renal SHO shift?
You know, a medical student who is not (yet) medically qualified, can't prescribe, can't request ionising radiation...
Or would that be unsafe?
Cognitive dissonance is real
PAs truly believe they are rockstars playing to sold out arenas throughout the world
The reality is PAs are akin to 13 year olds standing in front of their bedroom mirror playing air guitar & singing into their hairbrush
@LBC
@TomSwarbrick1
It's absolutely outrageous that AAs & PAs are being used to replace doctors in the UK
There is:
- No evidence to support the use of AAs/PAs in UK
- No evidence that AAs & PAs provide any benefits
- And most importantly, no evidence that the use of AAs & PAs is safe
@Cleverclog67596
I don't think PAs/AAs actually understand what regulation is.
They were just told by their leaders that they must get regulated by the GMC so they will be allowed to do even more...
Oops!
@megan_smeaton
Do you not feel your knowledge in your speciality at least matches that of a doctor, that after all is the whole point of ACP. Registered HCPs who are experts in their individual scopes and fields of practice. I'd expect an emerg ACP to be working on par with a Dr.
@anaes_spr
@Resuspiece
Unfortunately we donโt have conclusive data supporting or not supporting safety of AAs in this country which is really frustrating.
@UMAPsUK
"Participants were asked to confirm they were not misusing the form"
It's illegal for PAs/AAs to prescribe or request ionising radiation
But some PAs/AAs have done/are doing that
So some PAs/AAs will carry out illegal activities, but wouldn't dare to misuse a form?
@glambystefania
@DrEilidhMaria
@jabberwock951
@MichaelC7389
@lugolson
Are you telling us that YOU make the decision to stop medications? And then ask a doctor to physically stop the medication?
Something that you as a dependent PA are not trained or qualified to do
Oh, and it's also illegal for PAs to do this
"I think surgery is where I spent the most time learning anatomy as obviously it's important."
Thanks to this PA for clarifying exactly why no PA should ever be in an operating theatre.
@DrEilidhMaria
@Dr_Done_
@emmamac2
Confessions of a newly qualified PA from the bin fire. Why are they holding the bleep? Why are they surgically closing patients unsupervised? Why do they admit not knowing A&P in post? Why do โall doctorsโ go to them? ๐คก
Physician associates support the wider clinical team, reduce workload pressure and enhance patient experience.
The NHS Long Term Workforce Plan sets out how to build the right staffing and skills mix for the future, including expanding roles like these.
@IncogAssociate
@AoMRC
@TheBMA
And again for the PAs at the back...
PA is not a profession
PAs are dependent
PAs must be supervised by a SUPERVISING DOCTOR
@TheBMA
issued guidance about scope to the SUPERVISING DOCTORS