Don't get me wrong, I'm glad regulation is happening and going forward. But I don't feel like this is a victory or a celebration. I think, as PAs, we need to recognise that a lot of the things that have come to light recently are pretty awful.
I get so pissed and upset at the incessant PA bashing on here sometimes. I'm damned good at my job.
And then I see some of the dumb ass stuff that other
#PhysicianAssociates
put on SM and even I think, bloody idiot. Wind it in for God's Sake ๐ it's embarrassing and unhelpful
I have written and deleted so many tweets on the latest. It beggars belief.
1) PAs should not be prescribing - it's inexcusable, if it's happening it needs dealt with swiftly and decisively. There has to be consequences.
2) Trusts need to protect their staff and patients better
Being a
#physicianassociate
at the moment is exhausting ๐ฎโ๐จ you break your back at work in a crap system, trying to do the best for your patients and your team, for the same people to disparage and insult your role constantly, tearing you and colleagues apart day after day
How about... Just explaining PA training and development without comparing it to doctors?
And what's the incessant obsession with comparing to GPs? I've not a bloody clue what to do in GP but I'm great in ED ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
Another fricking own goal as far as I'm concerned. Nonsense.
@DHSCgovuk
@Israel
I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in these complicated politics. However, our health and social care staff are expected to provide a high standard of care to everyone regardless of their religion or ethnicity.
But... Some of it is right. I'm an experienced PA. I don't think I should walk into another department or GP practices and start working with minimal supervision on day 1. This needs addressed.
Seen a few views on this quote in particular. I understand the feeling behind it to be totally honest.
But the reason this ended up being a "thing" can be laid squarely at the door of certain PAs and, quite frankly, that's who I'm "extremely irritated" at for this
UMAPs survey reveals that Physician Associates regard explaining to patients that they are NOT doctors as "degrading".
If there is no intent on the part of PAs to deceive, why would this be degrading?
PAs can be an excellent addition to a department, but it is definitely damned ridiculous that NHSE are planning a massive expansion of MAPs whilst everyone refuses to increase trainee positions and pay them properly
It doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on with regards to PAs. The fact remains no-one should be using anyone's login full stop, never mind without consent to do something that they don't have permission to do in the first place.
If you work in ED, you do out of hours. You don't want to work out of hours, that is not the place for you.
Tomorrow, I start my fourth set of nights this year so far, having done 7 day shifts in the same time (and I work part time and only part of that in ED at the moment)
Another way in which Drs have been opened up to exploitation by NHS employers. Rather than incentivise Dr workforce to work out of hrs/unsociable hrs with fairer pay, they are being coerced into working unsociable rotas under the guise of "training".
So embarrassed right now ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
This is the issue with people claiming to represent the profession in general.
I'm identifying a learning need here, and ironically it centres around communication.
Ladies and gentleman, your future MAPs union.
@UMAPsUK
sent this as a professional press release. No, really.
Some notes:
- I don't have a website?
- My "locum wallet lining" has seen me earn less than I earned as a salaried FY1!
And we need to be supporting our medical colleagues to ensure they are being treated better, paid their worth (i.e a lot bloody more!), receiving excellent training and opportunities and so on. Apart from it being the right thing, lots of them are our friends!
If you are a permanent member of staff somewhere (not just a PA), you're in a good position to advocate for rotating staff. Please don't treat them like rubbish because they are only there for a matter of months
The GMC needs to ensure the standards of the PA courses - a lot of new courses seem to have appeared recently, we need to be assured that the teaching is to a high standard and producing safe practitioners
We need to be sure trusts and practices are not misusing PAs, that there are consequences where this happens. And that PAs are confident in saying no where they don't feel they have the training or knowledge to do something - address it in a PDP if need be
I don't think prescribing is a responsibility that should just be handed out. It's a big deal and we can't be certain the extent that all courses have been teaching it in my opinion. There needs to be further assessment at the very least
We need to be sure that we do talk about scope and competencies - and I'm sure there will be arguements about the extent of this. But regardless, we need to know that PAs are working within their limits and keeping up to date, practicing safely
@trishgreenhalgh
I'm a PA and I'm not happy to be seen by anyone masquerading as another role full stop ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ I'm happy to be seen by HCPs who introduce themselves properly tho
We have come a long way but there is a long way to go. I'm hoping the animosity calms somewhat, but I suspect that won't be the case. Anyway ... Just my tuppence worth on a few points ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ
Turns out Medtwitter was right, there are 100s masquerading as doctors at the weekend ๐
Pretty sure the wards I admit to from ED at the weekend are staffed by doctors. Pretty sure the surgeons doing surgery are doctors. So on.
24h every damned day of the week
@wesstreeting
The BMA vote to strike had a turnout of 77% at the beginning of the year. Despite all the encouragement and vitriol being spun on social media, only 9% of members responded to a very biased survey on PAs.
I feel this isn't the "ah ha!" moment being spun currently ๐
I've been quiet on here the past week or so, but I felt this was worth a share.
A good balanced piece pointing out some of the reasonable concerns that people have, without denigrating an entire profession. This is the kind of discourse PAs and PA leaders need to engage with
The roll out of Physician Associates has been shockingly bad
Aided by poor leadership from many organisations
As things stand?
It IS a patient safety issue
Relevant leaders need to acknowledge rather than gaslighting with
#BeKind
Via
@ptsafetylearn
Were you not taught about decency, professionalism and CONFIDENTIALITY... Get your freaking egos in check ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
Honestly, it's like bloody friendly fire
@UKGastroDr
I mean, honestly at this point it feels like everyone on the ground is being completely shafted on a daily basis, the patients are receiving substandard care and the staff are all burnt out and turning on each other. The NHS is practically unrecognisable compared to 10y ago
I'm not a fan of all these anons, I also find a lot of the stuff I read a bit hurtful sometimes, pretty insulting a lot of the time. Some of it is unnecessary.
@IncogAssociate
This is hardly helpful now is it. We can't continually refer to scapegoating and bullying without acknowledging that there are reasonable people with reasonable concerns, because it just alienates those individuals that aren't part of the scaegoating and bullying that goes on
@AbdoPainHotline
As a PA this is probably one of the most sensible threads I've read. It's not wholly accurate - I do lots of OOH, I pay for courses and membership fees etc, but it's definitely not as much as doctors. Junior doctors are treated abysmally and paid abysmally and it needs addressing
However, it is also true that PAs have their place, and it isn't under the boot of certain junior doctors. Constantly undermining and criticising the role (and plenty of other MDT roles for that matter) does little for the cause
I genuinely hope that junior doctors get the changes to training and rotas that is needed, and the increased pay that they deserve - it is not an easy job.
But I also hope that PAs will stop bearing the brunt of a number of individuals dissatisfaction
The following is true:
- Doctors pay is an absolute travesty, they should get exactly what they are asking for
- Training needs a complete overhaul, they are right to be upset at it
- Their rotas and hours are often horrendous making work/life balance near impossible
Thank you for perpetuating the assumption that PAs all want to be doctors ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
Excellent idea in the current climate. Very well thought out ๐
"If we want to tackle the crisis in GP numbers, we should establish a pathway for physician associates to go on to train as doctors and for newly qualified doctors to go straight into five yearsโ training as GPs."
I am, quite frankly, straight up pissed off at the PAs giving them the damned ammunition to torpedo the rest of us.
It is really any wonder that some people have concerns?!
Maybe I'm the problem here ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ I don't even know at this point ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
@Adam_Skeen
Bamboozles my brain that there is an entire framework for paying nearly all staff that aren't doctors that says, if you require XYZ knowledge and have ABC responsibilities you are worth this much. However if you are a doctor you can just suck it up, we're not paying you that๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
I'm pretty disappointed in the BMAs most recent publication, and not just for the obvious reasons, particularly as a PA working in ED. I probably don't need to go into those.
From where I'm sitting it sounds like
#RCPEGM
was a bit of a car crash, that has likely made things worse rather than better. Not sure I'm surprised but I'm certainly disappointed.
@doctor_oxford
@Zarkwan
Recent
#BBCQT
in Motherwell in, they had so much difficulty finding pro-Brexit Unionists that they phoned a failed UKIP candidate to attend, broadcast an entire minute of him ranting, then cut off the politican replying to him. That made his fourth appearance on QT! Disgusting!
@Molly2323232323
Can I just say, as a PA that is an utter embarrassment and complete misrepresentation. How has that been reviewed and published.
@uochester
, if this is your understanding then you should not be providing the course.
@CCriadoPerez
@thamesandhudson
Why do they even have to be male or female in this book, it makes no sense. Just do a human outline, they don't need hair and moustaches ๐คฆโโ๏ธ
Can't believe that PAs vs Medics is an actual thing on here given:
1) the absolute hellhole of a year we've all had
2) we've been around for ages and aren't going anywhere
I'm glad I don't have to deal with this rubbish in the real world from actual colleagues ๐คฆโโ๏ธ
- We need more training places because the MDT cannot replace doctors but it can work with them to improve patient care and safety
- We are horrendously short staffed everywhere and yet training places are often oversubscribed
Nonsense shenanigans such as sticking Dr in front of their name - I'd be less furious if they'd actually done a PhD and properly earned it (still inappropriate in a clinical setting in my opinion ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ)
@TRobinsonNewEra
@MailOnline
People clearly don't have the full story here. Poor child died because of gross system failures & a series of events, like terrible staff shortages & a lack of support. This woman has been used as a scapegoat so you have something to get up in arms about instead of underfunding!
Many PAs are hardworking, intelligent and ambitious. Of course they want to train and improve, to be challenged. There is a balance to be struck because there is certainly plenty of work to go around!
@jason_young22
I think there are probably a lot more of us, but many are worried about voicing opinions due to the backlash that is often received I suspect
@CCriadoPerez
@marksandspencer
All the women's faces when one of my friends pulled a tissue out the pocket of her WEDDING DRESS! Cue an excited murmur of "it has pockets!"
Obfuscation of the highest order when introducing themselves and plastered all over the internet - "medical practitioner" and so on with no context given at all
3) PAs need to be regulated for many reasons, ensuring professional & ethical standards is just one. Whatever your views on it, GMC has now done most of the work around regulation and stopping this is not in the interest of patient safety - it will delay any regulation by years
And, for the love of god - I did not leave university with "just a two year course" and walk into the hospital. You can argue about the end point of medicine Vs PA course all you want, but the starting point is not the same! At the end of biomed etc you kind of know some stuff ๐
@ExplosiveEnema2
@FPARCP
Can I just confirm that ๐ญ these people are so damned self centred and to hell with the damage they cause to the rest of us ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
I think this pretty much perfectly captures exactly what I've been trying to express about some of those in the PA positive camp recently. This entire thread centres around poor PAs being bullied. Obviously this is wrong and there are certain individuals taking it way too far.
'If the bullies win this battle, they will switch their target. Whoโll be next? Certainly, pharmacists and senior nurses who already fill the gaps between doctors should be worried. Pastor Martin Niemรถller had a point.' Lord Bethell writes in Pulse
Could someone in some sort of position of leadership just stand up and say, this has not been handled well from the outset and we understand that there are concerns. Maybe even address some of those concerns or set out how they will be addressed going forward
I find it somewhat astonishing that people in a profession that usually involves caring for others, and a fair degree of exposure to adverse mental health, would advocate piling on an individual regardless of any other views.
#medtwitrer
@hayleymagill
It's really brave of you to put your head above the parapet like that, given how hostile this environment is towards PAs. Thank you, I'm sure those PAs really appreciate it!
@doctor_dru_
Lack of proper standardisation is definitely an issue. I keep seeing posts saying PAs don't learn XYZ and I'm like... I did those things? One of the reasons I'm glad regulation coming. More courses popping up now, when there were only a few they were much more on the same page
All I'm gonna say is, if I was going to put out a video of myself speaking about another profession, I'd probably do an AITA test & run it past a few pals in that profession. If it was about my own, I'd probably ask a few of my pals in my own profession for their take on it...
Oh looky... Another PAs turn to be personally vilified all over Twitter by the brave and true! Anonymous assemble!
๐ฏ ๐ฅณ๐ฏ
We'll need to set up a support group at this rate! ๐
So I guess this weekend, I'll go into the ED and carry on assessing patients and supporting my colleagues. And reminding myself that they know my worth and are delighted to have me there.
Just a one sided, agenda-driven document that others will struggle to take seriously. There is already much talk of a much more "militant" BMA that is near impossible to negotiate with and I feel like this is somewhat reinforcing it
Excellent! I am forever saying our ED nurses should not be expected to triage and redirect patients, set up arterial lines and assist in intubations... I could go on and on... At a band five.
Delighted for them!
All Band 5 nursing staff in Scotland will have their banding reviewed from April. Any changes will be backdated, but no further than April 2023.
A welcome change thanks to
@RCNScot
. No nurse or midwife should be on band 6 after their first year.
@iDrSunny
@FPARCP
@CareQualityComm
I'm not sure what you expect the FPA to do? This is why regulation is essential, the FPA can't force PAs onto the register or and can only advise the employers. The fault lies with the practice. I've told our students, any employer not requiring PAs to be on the MVR is a red flag
But I'm disappointed because I feel like this is a lost opportunity. There was no engagement with any other stakeholders, there was no seeing any other point of view
@ClinOncDoc
Oh I agree, this should have been addressed well before now. And the treatment of doctors is horrendous - my heart is broken for these new FYs getting flung wherever
@MedCrisis
This is American by the looks of it so it hasn't been set up by any PAs in the UK. It doesn't matter if you do a 1 year course or a 10 year course, if you work in healthcare and aren't a doctor, you shouldn't call yourself Dr. That goes for everyone, not just PAs.
This is a serious breach if it's proven to be true. We can't be taken seriously as a profession if we can't call out unprofessional behaviour just because it comes from our own camp. We should be able to hold each other to account
Please, I beg and I implore...
#physicianassociates
, stop calling yourselves doctor! Stop the incessant obfuscation with vague nomenclature, and stop the outright deceit
@caroll_ste87889
They may well not be on the MVR is the issue, can't really say for sure. I think we have to accept that potentially this was a PA and just call it out ๐คท๐ปโโ๏ธ there will be toxic PAs in existence just as there are toxic doctors, nurses, etc. it's up to the rest of us to call it out
However, it is not the whole story. There are reasonable doctors and PAs and others who have genuine concerns that we need to work together to address. We can't keep deflecting these by just calling out the really toxic stuff at the other end of the spectrum, reassuring no-one
So whilst I am frequently "irritated" by some of the anti-PA things from non-PAs I see on twitter, and disgusted by the straight up bullying that occurs on occasion, and fed up with the misinformation flying about from certain accounts
@Aidan_Baron
That is an issue with the training centre and not an issue of physician associates versus junior doctors. There are plenty of areas where PA presence allows for teaching and training of the juniors. Sometimes that training is done by the PAs. It's an MDT, not a pissing contest
This "nothing to see here, move along now" attitude is doing endless damage to us all.
What a mess we are all in. I just don't know how we are going to resolve this at the moment. It gets worse with every passing week ๐คฆ๐ปโโ๏ธ
@jasaunders90
Cue the social media cat fighting between Medics (not all) and non Medics... I feel like we'd all achieve a lot more if we had each others backs instead of arguing. Everyone is being shafted quite frankly division between roles doesn't serve any of us ๐คฆโโ๏ธit's depressing
@NRA
I've worked in a UK ED for five years. I've never know there to be any gunshot wounds in that time. And before anyone says it, I haven't seen much in the way of serious knife assaults either...
@isitsleepytime
Perfectly happy to take on the views of colleagues and I am perfectly happy to say that the PA role is not without issues. It would of course have been better had these issues been addressed prior to implementation of the role. But this is turning into a witch hunt frankly
@parthaskar
It's very difficult, I've been saying for a long time that the polarising views at either side of this are not helpful in the slightest. And put reasonable individuals off becoming involved at all
@ExplosiveEnema
@DrEilidhMaria
@Adam_Skeen
@FPARCP
I've not spoken to any PAs who are impressed with this DMSc. I am of the opinion that if you are not a medical doctor, you should not use Dr when patient facing , regardless of your role or qualifications.
Sick fed up of the
#Aberdeenlockdown
now. People that were in the pubs are just having house parties. The people that were following the rules are still following the damn rules. Keep pubs closed all you want, just lift the 5mile limit and let us see our bloody friends & family
@drrachelhewitt
@KLM
My family and regularly use
@klm
as we have family in Thailand. This is a disgusting. It's not acceptable for your staff to say compensation will be forthcoming and then nothing. Your staff need better training on what would qualify and that lies with you.
Do the right thing.
Or maybe... Lots of us who haven't decided whether or not we are going to affiliate ourselves with those responsible for that survey rolled our eyes and didn't bother filling it in. Those numbers are less that 10% of PAs, never mind the rest of the MAPs
๐
If 93% of a profession are reporting a negative effect on their mental health (as conversations continue about a dangerous stretch of scope) and 81% are considering leaving the job, it really is not morally responsible to continue recruiting into it. If 93% of trainees wereโฆ
@GirlGiada
Jesus wept, the replies in this thread.
Here we go with "not all men" ๐ No not all men... But we have a fucking problem. Maybe if more men wanted a solution instead of saying, yeh but not me and my mates, we'd actually get somewhere ๐คฆโโ๏ธ
@danielrao007
I never said I was a doctor. I said I was good at my job. My job being a PA.
Some impressive mental gymnastics to be able to feel like you've managed to belittle me ๐
Have a lovely weekend. I can see from your timeline there is likely little to be gained in engaging with you
At some point you lot are going to pile in on someone already hanging by a thread, as many people who have actually been working for several years in this system already are.
Sometimes the role of a
#physicianassociate
is interesting and exhilarating and I love it. I love developing the role and moving it forward. Sometimes it's three steps back and thoroughly disheartening, and I wonder if I made an awful life choice ๐คฆ๐ผโโ๏ธ today is one of those days...
@DrEilidhMaria
With regards to prescribing, it is more complicated as there needs to be changes made to current legislation. It is almost certain that PAs will have to do a prescribing course similar to ANPs etc after the legal framework is in place.
I pretty much echo a lot of these sentiments. It's fine to be voicing valid concerns, but I do feel for some of the PAs quoted. Also very concerned as to whether they knew these quotes would be published as such!?
I have mixed feelings about this. Whilst I think UMAPs have made a bad situation for PAs much worse, this survey shouldnโt be dismissed out of hand.
Whilst some comments come across as entitled, there are some that are genuinely heartbreaking.
Again, I can understand many of the concerns - particularly around primary care and supervision, and I believe our doctors should be paid far more. We need to work together, all of us, to address these issues
@ExplosiveEnema2
@caroll_ste87889
@BBCBreakfast
@bbchealth
I believe that a well trained PA that commits to lifelong learning and CPD can be a safe, valuable and effective member of the MDT, along with doctors, but not in replacement of doctors. I also believe we need to ensure that this is what patients are getting
@DHSCgovuk
@Israel
I'm not sure that in seeing this, Palestinian (and potentially other ethnic minority) patients will feel comfortable accessing care and know their needs will be met