Physician associates have no place treating patients.
The experiment failed. Get rid of them.
Just fund the NHS properly. Train doctors. Stop looking for an easy way out. Fund the NHS properly 4/4
This death was preventable.
I've been dealing with negligence in the NHS for a while now and sadly not much surprises me, but the creation of physician associates is genuinely terrifying 1/4
With "physician" in the name, how is someone supposed to know they're not being seen by a doctor or a doctor in training?
Whoever came up with that title must've known what it would imply.
It's deception and it's not safe 3/4
I thought it might be interesting to compare the position for Drs with that of lawyers, the majority of whom work in the private sector. I have used my experience, but it may differ for others.
1. Exam fees: now around £1800 + VAT. The firm I trained with paid. Free.
🧵
This year's fees to do my job paid out of my pocket:
1. Exam fees x2: £1140
2. Hotel and travel cost for exam: £240
3. GMC fee: £433
4. Parking at hospital: £420
5. Indemnity: £650
6. Unrefunded courses: £450
7. Royal college fee: £168
8. Books and resources: 150
Total: £3651
For those who don't know, this story concerns a pregnant 34 year old woman who reported a breast lump to a PA.
She was told it was likely a blocked milk duct.
There was no further action.
A few months later, she was diagnosed with breast cancer 🧵
This illustrates my concerns about the increase in the number of MAPs & the expansion of the role.
Diagnosis a week earlier would likely have made no difference for this patient, but without supervision from the GP, the cancer may have been missed entirely 1/
I asked my husband if he would know that a physician associate was not medically trained and he said no.
I expect I would've said the same before reading the reports about deaths they've caused 2/4
Am I reading this right?
Orthopaedic ACPs are handling referrals from ED - so patients with suspected CES?
Cynics will say that me & my colleagues are rubbing our hands together at this, but trust me - we aren't
We are so scared about what this means for
#patientsafety
This is worrying.
Is it just me who thinks this suggests PA education is more in-depth?
There's no use of "basic" for PA studies. For doctors there's no reference to the qualification they have after uni - but PAs have degrees. Is this too critical? Or is there imbalance here?
And there I was thinking that lawyers are the unpopular ones.
I don't understand how and when it happened that doctors became the enemy (I get why - I don't agree) but I don't blame them for leaving.
Working in the sort of toxicity we hear about isn't sustainable. END.
I'm fairly new to the conversation about PAs & I know there are many out there who know far more about it than me, but I hope I can offer a different perspective🧵
Appalling is right. The more basic the error, the worse it is.
The patient could've avoided months of pain & suffering with earlier diagnosis. We're at the tip of the iceberg for these stories & the cost to people's lives & the NHS of such avoidable errors will be seen for years
This is appalling.
Mid 50s, cancer red flags ignored by PAs for 8 months.
This could be your dad.
The UK is failing patients, and planning to fail many more with the dangerous long term workforce plan.
I have just come across this thread about anaesthesia associates.
I'll admit that I'd previously focused my attention on MAPs in primary care or A&E, but I think the potential scope creep for AAs is far more worrying.
It's like the danger you can't see.
In it’s current guise the gov’s work force plan is a disaster & and as a consultant I feel compelled to raise a 🚩
The rapid expansion of anaesthesia associates within the NHS is likely to have severe consequences for patient safety and training
Read on if you want to know why
If it looks like a 🦆, swims like a 🦆, and sounds like a 🦆, then it is probably a 🦆.
Except it isn't, is it? And shouldn't that be clear?
PAs and AAs are not doctors (🦆🦆). Does adding them to the GMC register make this clearer, or not? 1/5
There are ongoing conversations around the future regulation of PAs & AAs. We recognise there are strong feelings about some issues. In this thread we address some of the key points we’ve heard. (1/8)
This outcome is not a surprise. I've been dealing with medical negligence caes against the NHS for long enough to recognise the deny, deflect & defend mentality that I have seen countless times before 1/3
They need to solve the problem of the lack of doctors first & then worry about who's going to provide support.
Otherwise, all I can see in the future is more litigation.
There's a place in the NHS for the PA role but not at the expense of fully trained, specialist medics. Bringing PAs to join the NHS now is like trying to train firefighters in the middle of a Californian wildfire.
6. CPD courses. Paid for by employer. Free.
7. We don't have anything similar to this. But we do have memberships to organisations, e.g. law societies or APIL. The fees are paid by employer. Free.
8. Books and resources. Bought by employer. Free.
Total cost to me: £0....
And before anyone comes for me, I understand causation.
I understand that a referral by the PA may not have saved this poor lady's life because the cancer was likely already very advanced.
But it might save the next person, and that's the point.
2. Hotel and travel cost for exam: I did the exams close to home because there are a variety of places in the UK to choose from. Free.
3. Practising certificate fee: Firm pays. Free.
4. Parking at work: Free if I use it.
5. Indemnity: paid by employer. Free.
I might've paid a fee to be admitted to the roll of solicitors (it was a while ago), but if so, it can't have been much because I don't remember.
I appreciate that the roles are totally different, but this just demonstrates that Drs have seemingly nothing in their favour.
"...regulation will “boost patient safety” and the GMC would “operate strict fitness-to-practice procedures and set education and training standards.”
What's that old saying about closing barn doors after the horse has bolted? This feels a bit like that
It is confusing. Everyone non-medical I've spoken to about PAs since I became aware of them has had no idea what they are & that they're not Drs.
I don't know that many people, but it's a good representative sample to start with.
Anyone else had a similar experience?
The government said it’s not confusing.
The grieving mother of Ms Chesterston explicitly said it is and feels there would have been a different outcome had she known physician associate did not mean doctor.
I know who I’d listen to. The fact the government are deliberately…
Medics of X/Twitter - are there other guidelines?
I am curious to know why the NHS investigation in this case did not seem to find fault with the PA, yet the GP surgery said "usual practice would have been to schedule a follow-up within two weeks".
What guidelines do they mean?
I would be interested to hear the views of any medicolegal GPs on here re: this scenario. My view is that the GP wasn't responsible for the delay, as they'd called for specialist advice & reasonably believed they'd received it. 1/
This is an absolute crazy situation on two counts- that PAs with no medical training are advising doctors as the "on call paediatrician " 😳 and that if doctors follow this advice they are legally responsible.
I think if faced with such a situation doctors should ask to speak…
@TomStocks1982
That is a very interesting point. My understanding is that all treatment is signed off by a doctor, but I don't know who discusses the risks and benefits. I expect that it may come up in the future.
Even the subtitles are confused!
At 8 seconds, "general practitioner" is written instead of "generalist practitioner".
What hope have the general public got when the titles seem so blatantly designed to obfuscate?
The PA's defensive attitude in this situation is exactly what can drive people to instructing lawyers.
An apology to a patient, an honest explanation of what happened, & reflection on how to improve goes a long way 4/4
What will be done to educate the public about these roles?
I don't think I've ever been given a doctor's GMC no, so distinguishing PAs / AAs from qualified doctors is a step in the right direction but how will patients know PA / AA does not mean doctor or nurse?
2/3 Like doctors, PAs & AAs will have a responsibility to clearly communicate who they are, & their role in the team. The GMC reference number has been raised in this context. We’re considering how to make it as easy as possible for anyone to identify individual registrants & to…
And that is a scenario that could result in a medical negligence claim. Many clients say to me that their motivation for starting a claim is to prevent the same harm happening to others. 2/
I missed this tweet in October, but this story is a real eye opener.
There is no question that PAs have a role in the NHS to support medics. This will benefit patients, no doubt about that
1/2
"A physician associate in neurosurgery told the Physician Associate Podcast that he had “zero training in neurosurgery or neurology” during his course...he now “scrubs in and operates on things like subdural haematomas”
Truly unbelievable🤯🤯🤯
@TheBMA
I know from experience that the meaning of junior doctor is widely misunderstood, probably because the term "junior" is misleading.
This thread provides a brilliant explanation. Factual & clear. It should be in every newspaper and on national news.
What on earth is a junior doctor? A student? An apprentice? A side kick to a ‘real’ doctor?
None of the above.
The Tories and the Media have misled you.
Let me explain by talking you through the ‘lifespan’ of a doctor - a 🧵
Now the specialist can't do their job to the fullest, and things start to go wrong. It's not really the fault of those in the supporting role because they shouldn't be there in the first place. It is not the specialist's fault; they're doing everything they can. It's the system.
For clarity, I funded myself through the GDL conversion course and LPC, but I was looking only at fees once I'd done the requisite training to become a solicitor, so that it compares with the quoted post.
The fees mentioned at 1. are actually incurred before qualifying.
In all industries, specialists need support so that they can do the thing they're expert in. But, imagine there's fewer & fewer specialists because they're overworked, underpaid, underappreciated. The demands on the system keep growing because it isn't properly funded / resourced
Maternity care at this trust "requires improvement" - last CQC inspection Jan '22. I hope that things have improved since then.
Patient safety is all that should matter. 3/3
Now, I might be overthinking this, but does the timing of the Supreme Court decision about secondary victim claims seem coincidental to anyone else?
Family members traumatised by witnessing loved ones die due to medical negligence (v. basic summary) can no longer claim.
1/
It will have the desired effect for a while. Other whistleblowers may be deterred from speaking out.
People are told they can speak up without perceived risk to their role. But then this... and the NHS has lost a good consultant 2/3
So what happens? They turn to the support role because they are there. They're quicker to train. They'll fill the gap. The few specialists who're left are balancing their role with providing oversight to those in the supporting role, & they're also training new specialists.
Well, this is obvious, isn't it?
Having more people to supervise makes any job harder, in any industry. Sometimes you can reach a point where you get into a groove & it works. But that takes years.
And the stakes aren't normally so high.
I believe (maybe naively) that if there is an investigation / claim, it does make a difference. That those involved learn & are less likely to make the same mistake again - although there are big exceptions to this, see the state of maternity care. 3/
@ExplosiveEnema
@ldndoc
If a HCA does an LP (e.g. due to staffing issues) & is negligent - they're held to the standard expected of whomever should perform that task. The trust is vicariously liable for their actions, as employer, & there would be criticism for the HCA doing it in the 1st place.
@DevanyAdam
If those excess MRIs lead to even only one patient being diagnosed with CES early, then I don't see a problem. If the NHS was funded properly, claims would reduce. It's as simple as that. Successful claims are supported by medical evidence. We don't make it up.
I am supporting the call for a national maternity inquiry by
@Safe_Maternity
I represent families whose lives have been devastated by failures in maternity care that should have been avoided.
It. Must. End.
Pledge your support here:
I attended A&E with a friend of mine in September and the doctor who examined her had to write notes on kitchen roll.
AI isn't the answer to patient safety. £100M is a pittance to them.
Pay real money for doctors, nurses & functioning equipment.
Buy some notepads.
We've announced £100M funding to accelerate
#AI
in healthcare & life sciences.
👉 Helping us harness the latest tech to improve patient care and support NHS staff.
👉 AI tools are already having results – helping halve the time for stroke victims to get treated in some cases.
The law got it wrong today.
The Supreme Court handed down a decision today in a case where family members of people harmed due to medical negligence claimed for psychiatric harm they suffered as a result of what they witnessed.
The Court found against the Claimants.
1/
@ExplosiveEnema
It often seems to be the way that when one story is shared, it encourages more people to speak, and then it grows. This doesn't look to be going away anytime soon
Another maternity service in the East Midlands that has failed. Another family devastated by loss, calling for an independent review.
Why are we still seeing these tragedies? Our team has been doing medical negligence for over 30 years, we ask ourselves, what has changed?
It's rare to read honest comments from those working in maternity services about fears of causing harm:
"I walked away from it because I couldn't live with myself if I provided unsafe care for someone"
1/
Is this fair on PAs / AAs who haven't had the same level of training as doctors, & therefore won't reach the same level of competence?
Is the alternative fair on patients? They must come first.
What will the impact be?
Increase in litigation? Reduction in patient safety?
5/5
“In the future, AAs could potentially support the Labour Ward service”
Genuinely speechless that this sentence has been even suggested.
LW can be one of the most remote clinically-challenging environments for experienced anaesthetic drs
Just, no 🤦♂️ 7/7
Listening to the birth trauma & the baby loss debates in the House of Commons today, it has been regularly said that women & families must be listened to.
How is that reconciled with the refusal to read a letter written by the Nottingham Maternity Families? When will they learn?
"Public inquiries are lengthy & costly"
The cost of failures in maternity care to families can't be measured.
Failures in maternity care cost the the NHS the most of all NHS clinical negligence claims.
1/1
Terrible choice of words here from
@Gibbo4Darlo
- 'some sympathy'??
Peter, there are serious systemic failures causing widespread avoidable harm in maternity, well beyond the CQC's competence to fix. Very worrying that you seem not to have noticed.
So, should we be holding PAs and AAs to the same standard as doctors?
If patients can't choose whether to be seen by a PA / AA and they are expected to take on roles previously filled by doctors, the outcome should be the same, shouldn't it? 4/5
@seanjonesqc
How was he fit enough to drive to hospital to collect his wife and son, when he was still so unwell the day after that he had to see if he could walk. How did he even manage to get to his car without help??
I was pleased to speak with
@eleanor__p
of
@Doctors_net_uk
about the ongoing discussion surrounding physician associates & the scope of the role (see article for members)
Patient safety must be at the forefront of all decisions about staffing in the NHS
In medical negligence cases, drs are held to the same standard irrespective of their level of experience. FY1s & consultants are expected to provide the same standard of care - that of a responsible body of opinion 2/5
Without a public inquiry into the standard of maternity services in Leicester, the same failures will keep happening.
Mums and families have not been listened to. It is time that they are.
It comes back to previous threads about the standard PAs are held to. If they're working as the on-call paediatrician (whether this is appropriate or not is another matter), that's the standard expected of them, so the responsibility for the delay would lie with them. 4/
The mistakes made in this case were basic. Failing to monitor the baby's heartbeat properly.
Another family goes home without their beautiful baby.
On top of the tragedy they had experienced, the parents (I am not their lawyer) then felt blamed by the Trust. There are no words.
Is maternity safety really a top priority? Today's story from the
@BBCNews
suggests the opposite
Maternity units with the lowest safety rating "inadequate" - meaning there's high risk of avoidable harm to mum / baby - has more than doubled from 7% to 15% since Sept 2022
First Nottingham, then Leicester, and now Derby.
Maternity care in the East Midlands is not safe.
If this isn't evidence of the need for a national inquiry, then what is?
@Safe_Maternity
Following the news that the Royal Derby's maternity department has been given the lowest possible CQC rating, our Local Democracy Reporter says it will be somewhat unsurprising for those who have been monitoring the situation
Maternity reviews are happening, or are being called for, across the UK.
Maternity claims can often involve secondary victims (usually dads or partners) because of their very nature.
Maternity care is in crisis in the UK - this will likely lead to more claims.
3/
Do UK hospitals need a National Public Inquiry into maternity services? Leicester's hospitals are the latest to be criticised by the CQC for the standard of the maternity care. Is a National Public Inquiry needed to address the deteriorating standard of maternity services?
This may sound unfair, but remember that NHS patients can't choose their doctor. If they're harmed, patients must be able to seek restitution for any injuries, otherwise they'd refuse to be treated by junior doctors who would then not have the opportunity to train & develop 3/5
49% of maternity units in the UK are inadequate or require improvement. This is based on 2023 figures, which were worse than the 2022 figures.
@BBCNewsnight
Will 2024 be the year when maternity services rated "good" & "outstanding" are in the minority? 1/3
‘You’ve got a range of people coming in with more vulnerability, more disadvantages, there are communication issues’
Christine McCourt, Professor of Maternal and Child Health at City University discusses the inequalities in outcomes seen in maternity healthcare
#Newsnight
Families who have lost a child would give the cost of a public inquiry 10 times over if it could bring back their baby.
Don't tell them that avoiding the cost of a public inquiry is more important than preventing more families from being devastated by maternity failures 2/2
@Dr_BellaR
I belong to a WhatsApp group with some of my friends and we called it bellendery. Isabellend made me actually laugh out loud. Keep doing what you're doing, you're smashing it.
@A4587GA
@nataliesedacca
The fact that they could fail the test now because of the character test is horrendous. They. Should. Have. Had. Citizenship. As. Children. Their character now is irrelevant. This country disgusts me
These opinions from Drs were obtained by
@TheBMA
& reported by
@itvnews
yesterday in advance of the legislation to be tabled today to regulate MAPs.
Are the public aware of MAPs? Should they ask what the public thinks?
They carry the potential risk. They need this information.
I'd be surprised if breach of duty was established here. If there was a clear reason to question the advice & the GP didn't but followed blindly, that could be different. 2/
@TheBreakster
It shouldn't be a situation that we're even having to think about. It should be a no brainer that PAs are not in situations where they could be negligent. I haven't known anything like this, & I imagine a lot of people who've been doing this far longer than me would say the same.
This thread summarises the story so far regarding MAPs and how they are being introduced to the NHS right under the public's nose.
I will also share to LinkedIn. More people need to know about this.
Tomorrow, a crucial piece of legislation around healthcare will be scrutinised by MPs.
It will happen in a committee room, away from the main chambers, on a whisper.
If it passes, it will worsen the health of the UK population.
Did you know about it? No?
A thread 🧵
@EmilyJBarley
@CareQualityComm
@RCObsGyn
It's like they double down on failing to listen & blaming parents on almost a daily basis now.
Surely someone within these organisations can see what they're doing. Or is that naive?
Why must people who have been harmed highlight what is wrong with their rhetoric?
@TheBreakster
They're not wrong, anyone can make a mistake and even experienced doctors / nurses do. The worry is that standards will be slowly watered down, when surely we should always be trying to improve them?
Asking for a consultant's advice would probably be the gold standard (& in the best interests of patient safety), but I think it would be unreasonable to criticise a GP for not doing that when they've contacted the on-call service. 3/
"the NHS has made improvements to maternity services over the last decade"
Taken from the article stating that the no. of maternity units rated inadequate or requires improvement for safety has increased from 54% to 65% in 1 year
1 year!! Let that sink in.
If this works, the impact will be huge.
If it's as described, the test could remove diagnostic uncertainty around sepsis & this will save lives.
It'll also reduce claims due to missed or delayed diagnosis - an absolute win all round.
EXCLUSIVE: A new blood test for deadly sepsis that can give doctors a result in 45 minutes is being trialled at
@GSTTnhs
. It could also open the door to new treatments for the condition
#sepsis
With the caveat that it's the GP's responsibility if the advice is so obviously wrong but the GP follows it anyway. I have dealt with similar situations (not involving PAs however) & the GP was not liable. 5/
Maternity claims are already at the top of the list for the amount of compensation paid by the NHS.
A case with a secondary victim claim can involve significantly more compensation than if there is only a primary victim.
4/
It's certainly open to discussion though. And a tricky (not meant lightly) situation for GPs if it becomes necessary to start questioning the "specialist" advice they have sought out. 6/6
Everyone who can should add their name to support this inquiry.
This is so important.
It is only with the collective voice that any progress is made.
Without harmed families, there would have been no reviews in East Kent, Morcambe Bay, Shrewsbury & Nottingham
I'm overwhelmed by the response to our call for a
#MaternityInquiry
@Safe_Maternity
- right now we're averaging a new pledge of support every minute! Add your name here:
"I don't want Ansh to just be another statistic".
Such powerful words from an incredibly brave family. An independent review is the only way Leicester can restore any trust or confidence in the maternity services.
Preeti and Hrushi who lost their baby Ansh have been incredibly brave speaking of their loss. “At no point was it communicated that there was an emergency situation”
#independentreview
@MHA_92_
Not crude - it's a question I want to be asked, as it's something a lot of people think. Patient safety is at the forefront of what we do. I would truly love to have to find another job due to lack of work. The people who come to us are desperate because all else has failed them
@DoveUK
That's good to know! Thank you. That information isn't widely known and a lot of people are suspicious of parent companies so they should publicise it!! Ps. So happy that I can buy Dove again!
@dx_mighty
@iDrSunny
Therefore, any trainee doctor, nurse, midwife dentist, surgeon is held to the same standard as a person experienced in that field. Otherwise, patients wouldn't allow trainees to treat / examine / operate on them. Trainees would then have no way to learn 3/