Medtwitter becomes more poisonous by the hour.
ANYONE who dares to show a jot of countenance or balance to the PA debate is piled on by the usual Drs (and their cronies) who think they’ll be remembered for standing up
You’ll be remembered as a fucking disgrace to healthcare 🤮
It is fucking unconscionable that somebody openly calling for the eradication of PAs, uses PA mental health concerns, often directly due to a narrative they push, to further their own agenda
Just fuck off.
Poisoned toxic narcissistic ignorant bully.
Seriously, fuck off.
Merry Christmas to all those working in the NHS today
Many staff in the NHS are grossly underpaid (even on Christmas day👇) but none more so than Junior Doctors who frequently graduate with >£100k debt
RT to support them & ask government to pay them ALL fairly
#PayRestoration
It appears “most”of the people commenting on PAs in primary care
1-are still medical students/new graduates
2-do not work in primary care
3-are not GPs
4-have never worked with a MAP
5-more concerned with loss of lucrative locum £££
6-ignore their own professions safety issues
Another day. Another absolute disgrace
If you are one of the doctors who repeatedly squawk “ it’s not abuse, it’s debate” you are most definitely part of the problem, and your silent *likes* are noted.
The >650 likes on this post from a doctor majority is a testimony to the illiteracy and ignorance of many in the medical profession who have no clue about the education, training, knowledge and skills of their non-doctor colleagues.
What an incredible embarrassment you are.
Parents.
Please be assured this hospital has a CQC outstanding rating and remains a centre of excellence for the region.
A PA is part of a multidisciplinary healthcare team overseen by a consultant in hospitals, and if your child needs a doctor, they will see one.
The amount of doctors taking these kind of posts at face value and “liking” complete nonsense contradicts the well oft claim doctors are some of the most intelligent and competent people in society.
Thick as mince more like if you actually buy this BS
This is a very dangerous direct result of a very deliberate manufactured, and organised campaign to cause outrage, fear and distrust by groups of UK doctors.
Genuine concerns, issues and debates to resolve conflict are lost to the “take no prisoners” rhetoric. Dreadful.
I wasn’t going to highlight this article.
But then I read the usual derogatory, hateful, sarcastic and offensive comments from the usual suspects so yeah.
Thank you
@guardian
for platforming the other side of the DAUK and BMA narrative.
Ooh a precedent?
I simply cannot wait for the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy to now dictate RNs scope of practice, or the RCN to set down what Paramedics can do. Maybe even The Society of Radiographers can provide guidance for Podiatrists lol 😂
Get outta here 👋
“Doctor Lite” is the new “Noctor” apparently
It includes ACPs, AHPs and ANPs who have had the bare faced cheek and audacity to further study an MSc, expand their regulated and professional role, scope of practice and transform and modernise pathways to improve patient care.
Dr Nash supporting highly trained, experienced and competent ACPs and ANPs - met with the usual playground insults, accusations and shitty pile on
The arrogance of some on MedX trying to stop progression of any HCP not a Dr is regressive for the NHS and an irrational absurdity
The majority of anti PA medX are stuck in their confirmation bias & you cannot convince otherwise no matter what you do. Period. And it’s not worth doing so.
Please conserve your energy, focus on the work that you do & stop replying. Block. Report.
Obsessed? No. I just generally like to highlight misinformation and disinformation on MedX, and you are such a prolific producer of gibberish so you get reposted occasionally, I’d be here 24/7 if I called it all out. It’s not personal.
“New roles at the practice include pharmacists, advanced nursing and paramedic practitioners and paediatric nurses”
People with less training and fewer skills? These are highly trained HCPs bringing specialist skills to this primary care team.
Suddenly it's newsworthy that GPs are being replaced with 'other roles' ie people with less training and fewer skills. Possibly because it's now happening in the leafy shires - in less privileged areas it's been going on for years.
Facts are important.
Podiatrist, paramedic, physiotherapist and therapeutic radiographer independent prescribers may prescribe controlled drugs - not just doctors, dentists, pharmacists or vets.
Begs the question what else is reported incorrectly?
In nearly all circumstances, it is a serious criminal offence for anyone other than a doctor, dentist, pharmacist or vet to supply controlled drugs under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. The Telegraph understands that the trust has not referred any of the PAs involved in this…
Yes. I can’t tell you how inspiring it has been observing your “neutrality”
You really do provide us all with a daily (hourly?) masterclass on how to be impartial and unbiased in this debate.
Likening MAPs to trained mutant pigeons is just another degradation tactic from a long series of widespread insults, abusive rhetoric and absurd accusations from anons and their named Drs/Professors who have enabled this hostility to escalate to visceral heights.
Shame on you.
@parthaskar
NHS leaders brainstorming :
Staff pay raise or a team of differently trained mutant pigeons? 🤔
Train pigeons as doctors instead of paying staff better ✅
Who needs a raise when a pigeon with a stethoscope can “coo-diagnose?”🐦
CC your mates at GMC, DHSC,NHSE for propaganda
Does that mean all our Physiotherapists, Podiatrists, Paramedics, Radiographers, Orthoptists et al are also a danger to patient safety? 🤔
Just because you imagine it doesn’t mean it’s true.
Ignoring all other stakeholders, and stating only the BMA is entitled to a view on MAPs scope of practice, an organisation which represents <50% doctors, is a level of lunacy I can’t even remotely square.
Very often, those arguing against Physician Associates/Assistants would have you believe it’s peculiar to the UK and made up on a whim by a Tory government.
It isn’t. ⬇️ They are trained and employed worldwide.
@Cath_Tyldesley
@LozzaFox
@CostaCoffee
I’m also disgusted that our healthcare staff working in shit PPE risk their lives to save other people. Calling where they do this a jabbatoir is horrendous. I’m disgusted you support calling hospitals this. Fuck off.
@AlanFreestone
We don’t hate men. We despise people of any sex, age, culture, race or religion that hold poisonous and dangerous opinions. Especially when they display a palpable narcissistic joy in perpetuity.
Many accounts on MedX are driven by admiration demand and grandiose narcissism facilitating contentious topics for self-promotion.
An inflated sense of self-importance & lack of empathy for others are not desirable leadership qualities in any organisation, especially the NHS
Drs calling for a refusal to supervise MAPs based on Pt safety arguments are being (mostly) disingenuous.
Because ironically, clinical supervision has patient-safety and the quality of patient care as its primary purpose.
A whole thread out there tonight about me blocking people and calling me nuts 🙄
I don't owe anyone my time or attention.
People have their own views on using block, for me, I’ll curate my own online experience as i prefer it, and thats my business, not yours.
There are over 7 million people currently on NHS waiting lists. 7 MILLION
There IS plenty of work to go around, denying this is obviously daft, and we do ofc desperately need more ST/StR/GPST places alongside new HC roles and advanced RN/AHPs
Both things can be true.
The disconnect from the reality of the report is ludicrous. The Dr concerned was suspended for negligence towards 4 different patients, the PA was involved with only 1 & was the clinician that highlighted the raised inflammatory markers.
Welcome to the Twilight Zone 🧟
So the BMA endorsed PAs until very recently. Even suggested MAPs should be recruited to membership of BMA?
Then it was decided they could be sacrificed and scapegoated for FPR instead.
Nope.
Just to be clear, I have only ever got personal in a debate on X with 2 people, Eilidh and Meg, and both retorts were in retaliation for their continued vileness.
I stand by my assessment and what I called both of them without regret or remorse.
I’m convinced the medX anti-MAP brigade is just an echo chamber of the same loudest “named” accounts, each with 2 or 3 loudest *anon* accounts to extrapolate their views
(Not to be confused with genuine concerns)
The lived experience of MAPs is very different to MedX attitudes
The only public perception that is important to this particular gang is promoting anti non medic propaganda
doctors = good care
non-doctors inc ANPs, AHPs = poor care
regardless of qualifications, experience, skills, cost benefits, evidence, proven competence and outcomes
Just another morning of anybody with anything positive to say about MAPs getting taken down by the usual raving loony medical mob with ridiculous accusations for simple click bait and rage farming
Webbe was found guilty on 13 October 2021. District Judge Paul Goldspring, the Chief Magistrate, said her evidence was "untruthful", and that her defence was "vague, incoherent and at times illogical“
Yes, let’s listen to her.
Medical associates are working beyond their competence.
Backdoor changes will further confuse the public, put patients in danger and only benefit big business and profits. Our NHS needs more actual doctors, not less.
My latest 👇🏾
Did you seek out MAP leaders for their comments when pushing an anti-PA and anti-GMC regulation agenda in your articles for the Daily Fail and Sunday Post?
If one were asked to compile a list of the major medical bullies on X, and for examples of the abusive toxicity, half truths and accusations without evidence discussed in HoL last night, each of the them absolutely showed up in this thread to prove exactly Lord Bethalls points.
I entered the debate on physician associates and anaesthetist associates in good faith after a PA wrote to me saying that the profession felt denigrated, shamed and bullied by a campaign of intimidation. I now know what they mean.
Remember when the BMA and doctors opposed non medical prescribing? The exact same arguments are being used for the opposition of MAPS.
It’s about jurisdiction and medical dominance, not patient safety. Again.
That the GMC have to explicitly describe civility, shows exactly how far a particular contingent of doctors who perpetually display toxic maliciousness in excelsis, have now tarred their profession with divisive rhetoric, misinformation and pathos.
But of course.
As previously stated, a certain cohort of vocal MedX doctors are completely unable to separate fact, fiction, opinion and belief.
Anything that fits the anti MAP agenda is spread like wildfire regardless of validation, context or truth.
Playground bullies.
@doctor_katie
@nhse
@rcgp
@ClareGerada
Dear Katie. We are indeed very proud of both of our sons who do very difficult and challenging jobs. We would be proud of them if they were PAs but actually they are not. By all means have a go at their parents but please leave our children out of this
Experienced, skilled and knowledgeable PAs that MedX are relentlessly trying to denigrate, discredit and insult.
The side move to try and now implement their division and hatred into the wider workforce of RN/AHPs has begun.
Mob rule mentality.
Don’t let anybody tell you a unique skill set is req. to be part of an MDT or NHS.
Generalists at all levels are a well acknowledged valuable asset in big industries where the ability to move between teams and handle tasks from different areas is important and valuable.
All can be true
Med grads who apply for FY1&2 should be guaranteed a place
(& be paid ⬆️ than PAs)
A massive ⬆️ in specialty & GP training is crucial.
ARRS MDTs can ⬆️ provision of proactive integrated health and social care
MAPs can support all of these used correctly
I met a PA recently - on a more social level - it was a fucking disaster. In the time I spoke with them I was told
1. Getting into PA training is more demanding than medicine
2. PA training just like medicine but condensed
3. No one cares about doctors
PAs are unsafe because they are of far lower intellect than real doctors, and are uneducated. Most of them are medical school rejects and unsuited to be doctors.
Unlike anywhere else in the world, in the UK they are being unleashed on unsuspecting patients.
End The Experiment
Bad faith objection.
The HCPC regulates 15 very different AHP professional groups.
The NMC regulates both nurses & nurse associates.
I don’t doubt the GMC can regulate both doctors & physician associates
Just introduce yourself correctly and wear a badge.
@drmattuk
@TheDA_UK
@gmcuk
@hodgejonesallen
@natalieben
The
@TheBMA
wants the draft legislation to be amended so that the Health and Care Professions Council have oversight of PAs instead of the GMC, claiming licensing doctors and non-doctors together “increases the risk of patients mistakenly believing PA care equals doctor…
@_MDAmelia_Sheph
I find denying and mocking HCPs (and colleagues) mental health issues particularly disgusting as well as disturbing from doctors yeah.
3 comments.
If this was a PA the usual suspects would be apoplectic and having an attack of the vapours in the replies before ensuring it spread like wildfire
The hypocrisy of MedX is astounding
Can vouch for having worked in this department with these PAs.. they are the reason theatre/clinic time was good as a trainee.
They also are knowledgeable and therefore actually help to teach the F1s urology - to be honest I learnt A LOT from one of them in particular!
Theres a parallel world on MedX where doctors lamenting the perceived loss of GP locum work simultaneously extol the advantages to GP continuity of care.
@greggo1685
There was a shortage of GPs but they are being replaced by other clinicians including Physician Associates, so now there is GP underemployment and this is the result.
We expect our NHS leaders to have a clear grasp on verifiable/unverifiable data and confirmation bias.
I could have participated in this survey without being a member of
@rcgp
& filled it in myself x50
Being anti-PA doesn’t excuse ignoring the grammar of science
Feigning ignorance of bullying and abuse on Med X is rampant and really grinds my gears, especially when it’s from self proclaimed “leaders” whose motives aren’t questioned and just accepted as altruistic, despite the overwhelming narcissism and glory hunting on display.
Maybe I’m missing something, but PAs won’t be marking their own homework- they are asking their DOCTOR GP/Consultant supervisors, who know their KSA, to confirm and sign re competence and compliance.
The manipulation of facts by MedX is wild (and conscious dishonesty)
Please stop tweeting Dunning-Kruger in every single debate about non medics, MAPS, ANPs, ACPs, AHPs etc.
Dunning-Kruger effect is an artefact of research design, not human thinking.
The reality is that very few people are truly unskilled and unaware.
Can we stop describing PAs as one homogeneous entity?
Many PAs have years of experience, skill and knowledge from a previous well established healthcare background in Nursing/AHP - and some have specifically choosen PA route/MSc instead of ANP/ACP route.
Absolutisms poor.
H/T
@drjanaway
for flagging
2 things:
I work with ANPs (
#Diabetes
all about MDTs)- you must be crazy to equate them with PAs.
They are NOT
Secondly, where are “it’s a typo” crew?
Or a PA job is equivalent to an ANP
I don’t think it is
You?
Link:
I think Drs/BMA as supervisors of MAPs should have an opinion at any stakeholder meeting
But I’ve yet to see any actual verifiable PATIENT views & opinion polls from those already managed by MAPs, nor any outcomes evidence, which ultimately should matter more than any opinion.
I know it’s Sunday, but holy shit.
Only a complete zealot would try to tie in PAs to this tragedy.
Irrational and dangerous fanaticism. We all need to call out this gibberish more often.
Yeah. Miss Information 🙄
In a post specifically about evidence, it’s usually best you know/understand your subject
In the United States, podiatrists are educated and licensed as Doctors of Podiatric Medicine (DPM) - it’s not PA or “medicine”
..other errors I cba with.
Doctors wielding a toxic, dehumanising “us vs them” rhetoric are creating a more divided and dangerous NHS than a small group of health care professionals educated to Masters degree level who already successfully supporting.
Regulation and scope req. so stop delay tactics.
I find the most unpleasant are the glory hounds (or pompous panthers) who dabble in patronising, hypocritical snide and arrogant rhetoric that the sycophants lap up as if ambrosia from the Gods.
Nauseating cultish behaviour 🤢
Today is a good day to remember any report consistently using the words:
“alleges”
“claims” and
“accuses”
are legally classed as assuming facts not in evidence.
IMO - very sad to see a once respected profession resorting to McCarthy like persecution in the Torygraph.
Yes, yes you are being protectionist & dismissive of anyone who isn’t a medic in GP.
The reality is, like it or not, GP MDTs are evolving to include highly skilled, qualified and experienced AHP/Nursing & support staff because not everybody attending primary care needs a GP.
I'm not being protectionist
We train for a decade because it isn't easy to do general practice well & safely.
Having new staff in GP to bring their specialist skills (physio, pharmacy) is a great addition, but
this has blatantly tipped into replacement.
@RestoreGPUK
The people behind this campaign have zero understanding, a total disregard and complete ignorance of the value of skill mix MDTs in healthcare, including primary care.
A campaign to end PAs has morphed into an attack on all non medics.
Shameful and dangerous to staff & Pts.
Its astonishing how anyone that dares criticise the state of medicine or supports MAPs are
“jealous”
“has a chip on their shoulder”
“ignorant”
“too stupid for GEM”
“a failure Noctor”
ad nauseam
Medwitter X is an absolute binfire of bullies,narcissists & sociopaths.
Rotational training, pay & treatment of Drs are of the utmost importance & should be considered an urgent priority by all Royal colleges/government.
The desperation our young Drs face has very little to do with MAPs tho despite the mental gymnastics needed to claim the contrary
People showing screenshots of who blocked them like some kind of badge is ultimate playground shit
If I find you insufferable or just repeating the same old lines
I’ll block you
I don’t owe you my time, my energy or a reply
Or you could always report me to Elon like this guy 🙄
This is not very clear:
"Although physician associates are dependent practitioners, they can also practice independently and make independent decisions. "
Maybe if someone else had put themselves up for election there would be more than 1 candidate? Not her fault.
Comparing this to Putin and the Russian regime is beyond disgusting and disgraceful, take yourself off social media for 5 mins and have a word with yourself.
Extraordinary happenings at
@RCPhysicians
today.
In process not dissimilar to Putin’s recent re-election, Fellows are voting for a new College President.
Except there is only one candidate and not voting for them is literally not an option 😳
@AlanFreestone
Women have been wronged for centuries - to suggest mass shootings by males feeling alienated because they failed at life is somehow women’s fault is disgusting. Your misogyny is crystal clear.
Just over 50%?
After a concerted, organised very public campaign to cause manufactured outrage to discredit PAs, along with a heavily biased survey, almost half of the doctors still agreed they were a positive help.
A Pyrrhic victory indeed.
“As a GP am I not on similar clinical & managerial level to hospital consultants and if they can work atop a pyramid why should it be impossible for primary care to broaden its pyramid too?”
Re my earlier tweet re singling out PA 🎯in FPR debates…
It seems DAUK doesn’t want to talk about ACPs and ANPs “for now”? 😬
Why is DAUK purposely trying to delay regulatory legislation?
Manufacturing outrage and fear in healthcare is detestable.
After some education and PPG input, our patients are perfectly aware of the MDT that now makes up their primary care team.
They know a Physio, a Paramedic, a PA, an ANP isn’t a doctor. They know what their role is in their care.
Infantilisation on so many levels.
@RishiSunak
@DHSCgovuk
@NHSEngland
@gmcuk
And crucially, which is it for you,
@UKLabour
&
@wesstreeting
?
Because the increasing substitution of NHS doctors with non-doctors lacking a medical degree is, imo, exceptionally risky.
And it's happening without public consent or even awareness.
Please stop it.
Ends/
I also hope
@GMC
take notice of the doctors that have liked or shared this tweet advising parents not to take sick children to their nearest hospital.
I have no words.
“ According to him (Aneurin Bevan) they (the BMA) were a small body of raucous-voiced politically poisoned people who completely misrepresented the medical profession”
Ouroboros
Dr Zaw failed 4 patients (that we know of) with a hefty trail of errors and mismanagement. He wasn’t thrown under a bus, he was an obvious danger to patients. His suspension has nothing to do with him being a BAME and everything to do with his own medical negligence.
⚠️ For those working with PAs
MPTS case published 2017 where a ST3 Junior Doctor was suspended for failure to adequately supervise a physician assistant’.
The PA was known as ‘Dr G’.
There may have been other issues too - irrelevant. Read the following:
The public & all HCPs should be more concerned about Doctors Vote if the alleged founder admits to wanting to burn the NHS to the ground & replace it with private medicine.
It may be MAPs that lead to a 2 tier system after all, but as the planned scapegoat for NHS destruction😬
@SaraTon08500527
@PhilipBrayshaw
@KirkwoodDW
@mancunianmedic
He is hoping doctors can be liberated from the NHS. It's the foundation of FPR it seems. He's the founder, from what is being said, of Doctor's Vote, who have taken over a chunk of the BMA. So is it FPR whether through govt pay restoration or end of NHS?
@caspertown42
@TheSalariedPA
@AnalysisDrawer
The constant baloney, caricature & misrepresentation of MAPs is a very deliberate plan to cause outrage and fear.
It’s normalised the abuse of our colleagues
It’s easy to see why the NHS has a huge bullying problem and many of the perpetrators can be seen here on X daily.
You don’t need to be able to solve the Reimann Hypothesis to work out 3000 PAs can’t honestly be making that much of an impact to training when there are 75000 doctors in that class ….
@carolvorders
@TheBMA
Hi Carol, FYI we are talking about >3000 healthcare professionals working in the NHS as PAs from science and healthcare degree backgrounds and a MSc. for >20 years.
It’s not new, and they are not people just dragged in off the street as some would have you believe.
How to insult a whole regulated healthcare profession.
Equating Pharmacists with shopkeepers, greengrocers and bakers is beyond ignorance and stupidity.
Another example and result of the idiotic
#askforadoctor
faux outrage campaign
@thisislawton
So we're to be turned down by remote cloud telephonist who refuse access to our family GP & force us to go to profit-driven pharmacy chain to talk to a shopkeeper about out confidential health issues? I hope GPs are refusing to go along with this?
Maybe the Greengrocer cld help?
@AndreaR04132804
Well past caring about being professional and polite Andrea when a mental health report on PAs is fair game to use like a weapon to wield in her own PA eradicating agenda.
You should be outraged by that too, not at me typing “fuck off”.
Our Consultant RNs & AHPs have developed an expert & lead professional practice in their relevant field, modernising & streamlining patient care across services and organisations & involved in research/EBP education/training.
They are indeed “Consultants” of their professions.
@BuddGeorgie
Having flat hierarchies is one, but another to dilute the profession making "consultants" out of everyone+allowing everyone to be "consultants" without the appropriate training. What's the point of our training and exams then? Hierarchy is one, but patient harm is another
A few of us have regularly highlighted the mis/disinformation from Dr & anon accounts for some time - there are many who quite obviously invent anecdotes, lie and distort facts to sling mud for the cause. This guy is just one of many. We see you and your alts.
Lots of snide comments about “Dental Associates” on X today.
No surpise they also have their own supplementary workforce who now interpret radiographs and do fillings “freeing up the dentist for more specialist work”
Sounds familiar …. 🤔