Idk misogyny and alienation are some the hardest parts about being a lesbian not โgirls are so dramatic ๐ซโ or โtry going through a lesbian break up ๐ฌโ
I really wish people would stop calling people โdegeneratesโ, โporn sickโ, and โaddictsโ. I find it to be incredibly reactionary in general and often times homophobic and ableist. There are better ways of addressing people who sexually objectify women.
i feel like when lesbians talk about gender its super not relatable for other queer people sometimes and they just dont get the context at all and we sometimes have extremely different goals for our gender embodiment and desire
I hate how people act like by being a lesbian Ive been able to โopt outโ of misogyny because I donโt date men, when I experience violent misogyny due to that very reason!
lesbianism is expansive โ
lesbians are women โ
lesbians aren't women โ
lesbianism is about women loving women โ
lesbianism is about lesbians loving lesbians โ
No, butch-femme roles are not heteronormative. Here's an excerpt from "Boots of Leather, Slippers of Gold" which is an excellent (not perfect) primer on the origins of b-f culture.
itโs funny when people think androgyny is inherently more progressive than being masculine or feminine, when androgyny can be just as cis centric and restrictive as being masc/fem.
I find that โbutchโ and โstudโ have a much more masculine connotation than the word โmascโ and many butches that are unapologetic about their masculinity still donโt identify within the โmascโ term because it reduces their butchness to an aesthetic.
I think people put too much focus on understanding what is femme through aesthetic whether itโs cisnormative or โsubversiveโ femininity, and not enough on sexual desire and devotion to butches.
CW BRIANNA GHEY
It makes me sick how they specifically targeted her due to her transfemininity, fetishized her, weaponized the fact that she was isolated and depressed, and killed her for no reason and people every day literally debate if trans girls are privileged or not.
Why do people get mad when trans butch lesbians donโt want to be gay men or donโt want to be compared to cis gay men whether itโs a transmasc lesbian or a transfem lesbian ๐ค
The problem with femmes4femmes is the butchphobia + transphobia, not the fact that two girlie girls are dating. Now we have people calling any visibly queer feminine lesbian a femme. Feminine โ cisnormative/straight passing ๐ญ
I just think itโs a mistake to frame pervasive institutionalized misogyny and sexual violence as some sort of individualized pathological issue rather than something that is normalized and encouraged by every facet of society.
Okay well most of my abusers were cisfeminine. Why single out masc people like their masculinity gives them a proximity to cis men they donโt have. Their masculinity marginalizes them further because theyโre /not/ cis men, nor are they gender conforming like most cis women.
Just as women can uphold patriarchy and Black folk and POC can uphold white supremacy masculine lesbian can participate in using women for currency and capital just as men
The word โfemโ in studfem culture is largely interchangeable with โfemmeโ and is not simply short for โfeminine/presentingโ like it is in mainstream/non-black queer culture. Black people are more likely to use the spelling โfemโ>โfemmeโ.
As tme femme lesbian married to trans butch woman the way yall talk about lesbian pregnancy feels really dehumanizing and misogynistic on all fronts lmfao
some gender conforming fems were able to work jobs in public and provide money for butches who were visibly queer and had little to no job opportunities. butches who had jobs and/or passed as men were able to provide and protect sex working and trans femmes on the street etc.
@lovecrashdown
Iโm trying to better understand the socioeconomic advantage of b-f dynamics/how it is impacted by class. I found these excerpts super interesting, but didnโt quite understand how the points made led back there
everyone wants to talk about the unshakable bond between butch lesbians and trans men but why is no one talking about the unshakable bond between butch lesbians and the middle aged depressed cis woman that works the same shift as them ๐
As someone who is close to a masc lesbian trans woman who was discouraged, please transition. Your life will get so much better. Her transition goals look different than the average trans woman, but even if your goal is to pass as a cis woman you can pass as a butch cis woman.
Can yโall stop implying a butch being a woman or identifying with womanhood in any way means that they are cis or self hating. There are many transgender and/or non-binary butch women.
@LovelyTayForce
Degeneracy is a fascist talking point that has been historically used to describe trans/gay people and calling people addicted when there is no evidence of porn addiction/itโs used in a derogatory way is ableist. I understand why people say it but I think itโs a bad idea.
Please be aware of the history of the term "corrective rape" and how it was specifically used to refer to the sexual assault and murder of South African lesbians.
โ[butch/femme] lesbians recognized different intensities and qualities of romantic love and accepted the probability that many more than one important love relationship might exist in a lifetime. They did not reserve sex for their one or several true loves."
All lesbians like butches, but not every lesbian wants to be responsible for giving them the best sexual experience and protecting their sexuality + sexual autonomy. Especially (but not exclusively) for stone lesbians whose sexual preferences are not accepted by most lesbians!
it means so much to me as a masculinized degendered black person who is treated like a pack mule and has to be strong for everyone that my butch literally doesn't let me carry things, that she wants my hands to be untouched, that she accommodates me with my disability, etc.
I like intimate friendships but I also appreciate friendships that arenโt that deep. I can form a really strong connection with people just due to proximity, being kind every day, and having things in common honestly
fake butches complaining about "masc expectations" like do you know how many butches would do anything for someone to accept their masculinity and celebrate it and find it sexy and even complementary. people have quite literally died for the right to be masculine.
Yโall thatโs why I can be so annoying about stone/high femme terms because itโs one of the only subcultures we have that is centered around trans people having good sex and being respected fully. When people donโt know what they mean it can be pretty dangerous for stone lesbians.
Lesbian women who desire to be pregnant together are not hypothetical. We are not all "c4t". Lesbians regardless of their ASAB have many unique ways of getting each other pregnant that should never be compared to cis heterosexuals.
@sapphokyoujuro
I totally get you! Its a good thing considering yourself a third gender is included in the non binary umbrella. all of us arent the same and have different views of our gender and genders that change over time. all of it is non binary :)
As someone who actually loves using labels (Black/Lesbian/Woman/Femme) I think people act like oneโs identity starts and ends with simply deciding to use a specific label rather than that particular label being informed by their experiences and desires!
i know a lot of people think yearning is a central theme in lesbian literature which it is but i think the actual root theme is Alienation and yearning comes with that naturally
@adrian_satsuki
If you think I think using that terminology is wrong because I have sympathy for misogynists and abusers you didnโt understand my post
Here is what a lot of transmisogynistic queer trans discourse looks like to me: misogyny is not a real or a real concern, misogyny is not meaningful in trans spaces, if misogyny is real it is rooted in being assigned female, transphobia goes beyond misogyny or is worse, etc.
I will say butchfemme is not going to be appealing to most lesbians and is going to feel way too restricted and gendered for a lot of people. I need people to understand that this โstrictnessโ is in place to protect butchfemmes from sexual, transphobic, and emotional harm
I am begging neurotypical to understand.
Appropriate: โhey could you help me move this weekend?โ
Not appropriate: โgosh.. all these heavy boxes and furnitureโฆ all by myself in just a few hoursโฆ sure wish I had someone to help meโฆ but no one cares..โ
STOP IT
i donโt think โfemme lesbianโ will ever be an accurate or meaningful descriptor for people who would feel less comfortable being alone than dating a non butch
The term โbutchโ not just โfemmeโ are misused by people who have zero understanding of what it means and conflate these terms with masculine/feminine. I feel like a lot of focus is on โfake femmesโ but there are just as many butches who fail to embody any butch traits or values.
another thing is this is referencing the 40s-60s where butches OUTNUMBERED femmes by a lot. now its the complete opposite lol so its not as if femmes are sidelines or have a less important role. honestly femmes these days do not stand by butches enough imo
I am socially isolated, economically disadvantaged, misgendered, and have even been targeted in hate crimes because of my fundamental lack of attraction to men. It really upsets me when so many people in our community trivialize that aspect of lesbianism.
This is why you have people calling Chappell Roan a femme because sheโs feminine and looks queer when actual femmes are dolls, look butchy, and/or are damn near indistinguishable from a cishet woman but the thing they all have in common is desire and companionship with butches ๐ค
wrestling with the fact you arent attracted to men in this world is literally so hard you get shit from everyone even queer people..it was the biggest shocker to me coming out that my most of my other non binary friends couldnt relate to me anymore and treated me different
The opposing gender roles of butchfemme have historically allowed working class lesbians to protect each other socioeconomically as well as physically. Butch femme roles subvert heterosexual dyads and serve as a form of resistance.
Many butches are emotionally sensitive, caring, open, nice, etc. These are fine traits, but they are compulsory for "women". Just because butches celebrate masculine aspects of themselves doesn't mean their other parts don't exist, they simply don't have anything to prove.
gotta introduce some of yall to the fact that some lesbians are neither butch nor femme nor futch etc. many are simply what i like to call "just hanging out"
Do people not understand that the concept of masculine and femme are thrust upon peoples bodies against their will? Do they not understand these concepts are gatekept and racialized? Do they not understand people are feminized and masculinized in a violent way?
a lot of butches and studs are fat 47 year old cis women named Destiny that own a miniature schnauzer with their femme and wear polos + cute mustache + has a favorite nephew and owns DVD box sets of Lost
queer people donโt feel like you have to choose and stick to one label for the rest of your life. i encourage you to interact with many different communities with humility and enthusiasm. because of those experiences i have no doubt in who i am and iโm proud of it!
like so many femmes to use the the high femme label with no conception of what it means and desexualize it so much. not going to go over the definition too much again but it's about sex and desire in relation to stone butches and a stone femme's relationship with their own body.
i feel like maybe im just autistic asf but i cant with "blehhh whatever who cares ๐คช๐คช๐คช we're queer" approach to community on here. it seems like even the most non conforming ppl and identities do so with purpose and intentionality and have a logic to why they do what they do
y'all be antiblack because lots of tme hypermasc studs have strong boundaries about being called a woman/girl or being able to be sensitive because they are being violently masculinized and ungendered constantly by partners who fetishize their masculinity instead of respecting it
Its kind of extremely annoying how non black lesbians just donโt give a fuck about antiblackness at all but love to call each other dykes all day every day