A lot of people making jokes about WETH.
Please be aware it may not be obvious to outsiders that it's completely different from bridged assets and there is literally almost zero risk. I think it would be better to mark these more clearly as jokes.
I'm thinking about a new sharding design, where instead of having independent proposers for each shard, all shard blocks in one slot are proposed together with the beacon block. This leads to a major simplification of the sharding design 1/n
This is great! Celo is showing the way forward.
We need to make sure that Ethereum will provide a cheap and secure data availability layer, so chains like Celo can use native data availability asap.
After many months of research, I'm excited to share cLabs' proposal for turning Celo into an Ethereum L2!
This is the start of Celo's return home to Ethereum!
Decentralization does not work like this. No economic incentives will automatically guarantee our values such as immutability or censorship resistance -- the values of the Ethereum community do this. Our technology, as well as the incentives built into our systems, are a tool forโฆ
@kunalgoel
@dankrad
@TimBeiko
@dannyryan
Hoping on social agreement holding in a trustless system is not smart.
The entire premise of crypto is that it's economically guaranteed.
Hand shakes are not enough to contain staking and restaking.
Calldata cost reduction will make rollups 5x cheaper:
I am for doing this ASAP. As in before Christmas. $100+ fees for using Ethereum smart contracts should be seen as an emergency, and this is the (temporary) solution (before data shards). Let's do it!
Check: It was years, but definitely fewer years than I expected.
Even though I have to eat my words I'm very happy about it! It looks like this is going to be the year of the rollup.
If you are staking on Ethereum and currently running Prysm, this is for you: Run the majority client at your own peril!
In this post I detail the enormous risks that staking with the majority client incurs.
Anyone working on a rate limited version of Tornado? Say 1000$/week based on Proof of Humanity. Good privacy for all casual users and useless for money laundering.
This is a very bad idea. ETH and liquid staking derivatives are different assets with different risk profiles (and rewards), and users should have a choice about which one they want to use. The same is true for different types of stablecoins
Introducing Blast: The only Ethereum L2 with native yield for ETH and stablecoins.
Weโve raised $20m from
@Paradigm
and
@StandardCrypto
to build the L2 that helps you earn more.
Details on how to get early access at the end of the thread๐
EIP-4488, which would have lowered calldata cost to 3 per byte to make rollups cheaper, was proposed just over two years ago.
We really should have implemented it.
PSA: If it doesn't use Ethereum for data availability, it's not an (Ethereum) rollup and therefore not an Ethereum L2.
[Exceptions: Plasmas/State channels or other constructions that *do not* require data availability for security]
Teaching GPT-3 about KZG commitments.
I crashed it at the end (as probably most human interlocutors would do long before), but the ability to take in new instructions/information on the spot is absolutely astonishing!
The age of AI starts now. No more winters I would predict.
I am for increasing the gas limit, but we need to be more careful.
I think after 4844, the best way to do this would actually be:
- Increase the execution capacity by increasing the gas limit BUT ALSO increasing CALLDATA cost (ETH L1 is for execution, not data)
- Increase theโฆ
Thatโs a framing of the upcoming Dencun update that I havenโt seen yet - given that the blob data will be in addition to the existing block limits, it is equivalent to a raise of the gas limit by ~11M, just with that gas reserved for L2 data.
Future stakers, remember that you will need a synced Eth1 node! I recommend setting that up now. Don't leave it to the last minute [it takes a long time to sync]
This is the correct take. Lido is a great addition to Ethereum between 20-30%, maybe the best of all staking pools. But its ambition to go far beyond this threshold, and failing to see a problem with that, is what makes it problematic.
I think it is not correct to call Lidoโฆ
@sachayve
I mostly agree with
@hasufl
but there's two things he's missing.
1. Lido needs a counterbalance. It can't keep toying with the 33% threshold. There needs to be a viable LST alternative to maintain a healthy market. Alluvial is that alternative. Having all enterprises andโฆ
I'm generally a gas bull and think it is time for a gas limit increase.
I think the best would be a package of measures:
- Increase execution gas limit (to 40m or even more)
- Increase blob count (3->8)
- Implement EIP-7623 to limit the max block size
Today,
@nanexcool
and I are launching an effort to help raise the Ethereum gas limit from 30mn to 40mn
This can result in a 15-33% reduction in L1 tx fees
We are calling on solo stakers, client teams, pools and community members to help
#pumpthegas
@smsunarto
@0x_cooki
@zengjiajun_eth
Blockchains are a tool for coordinating social consensus. Your values seem to be pure individual profit maximization which are not mine. My values (and most of the Ethereum community) include many others, including decentralization, censorship resistance and building an immutableโฆ
My reasoning on why I'm for EIP-7514. It is currently unclear if (especially liquid) staking will keep growing indefinitely. In the case that the withdrawal queue does not empty over the next few months, the lower churn limit will give the Ethereum community the time needed toโฆ
Many misunderstandings out there why Terra failed. It wasn't paying 20% on Anchor, though that was clearly one of the reasons it became so huge. But the design was fundamentally flawed in another way: The circular dependency between UST and Luna.
There's another reason to be upset about this: The native yield thing can already be done on any L2.
You can already hold those yield bearing stablecoins and liquid staking derivatives, and chose exactly the asset you want and do DeFi with it. You can also pay your gas feesโฆ
Introducing Blast: The only Ethereum L2 with native yield for ETH and stablecoins.
Weโve raised $20m from
@Paradigm
and
@StandardCrypto
to build the L2 that helps you earn more.
Details on how to get early access at the end of the thread๐
@norswap
@TrustlessState
@eigen_da
The definitions are important.
A rollup has trust guarantees very close to those of the settlement layer, because it has it's data on a layer that's coupled. In particular, it doesn't need any honest majority assumptions.
Any chain that has it's data on a different data layerโฆ
Counterpoint: I think people overestimate how much execution scaling is a bottleneck, even for the EVM.
The current, naive EVM runs at over 100 mgas/s on consumer-grade hardware (no parallelization). That's around 5000 tps on transfers.
So when the EVM is parallelized, yourโฆ
Eventually your rollup faces the same โlocal state hotspotโ issues as Solana and may want to price/queue different parts of the state access hotspots differently.
Parallelization doesnโt solve the problem if you have two buyers each wanting to buy 100m of $BALD at the same timeโฆ
When someone from your tennis club contacts you for advice on which Eth2 client to run on their NUC for diversity...
That's how you know that at home staking in Ethereum is very real.
EIP-1559 has multiple aims, and I support all of them. More predictable inclusion of transactions, gas price oracles and burning of fees to decrease ETH supply are all good for Ethereum
#supportEIP1559
@sreeramkannan
has already made a strong argument why choosing the base of your L2 is not about "which L1 is the most secure", but about "which L1 do I want to settle on". Assets which settle on the same L1 that you have data availability on can get safety that goes far beyondโฆ
By today's market prices, Ethereum has $110b staked while Solana stands at $70b staked.
Solana's economic security is getting really close to that of Ethereum. Isn't economic security one of the major reasons L2s choose Ethereum as its home?
Given the recent debates, one thing I wanted to be clear on: I haven't heard of any team writing a fork to remove Lido and it's not something I would support.
Another thing to maybe clarify: My opinions are not representative of the Ethereum Foundation, and there are quite aโฆ
Shared sequencing + shared proving give you synchronous composability.
They also effectively turn all of the rollups into one rollup.
There are reasons to do this or not, but we should be honest about it...
Can we stop saying that shared sequencing enables synchronous composability by default?
The only current way for one to "synchronously compose" between the L2s sequenced together is to operate the full nodes for all of those L2s.
I do not know who claimed that royalties are enforced by smart contracts, but you should probably unfollow anyone who did and never take them seriously again.
It's more than just a lie. A smart contract cannot enforce to take X% of the sales price, as it cannot know the price.
do eth nerds understand that royalties are still the canonical example for normies (including many artists) of what makes smart contracts useful and different? at a high level, how do you go from characterizing them as iron-clad to "eh, we'll ignore what we don't like"
Reminder that data shards do not have any logical restrictions on which shards to use for a transaction. Any rollup can run on any shard, so censoring on one shard does nothing.
Anatoly hasn't caught up yet, I guess it's because he doesn't understand rollups ;)
@FigoETH
@nik_hayes
@aliatiia_
@dankrad
Eth2 design doesnโt minimize the cost to censor a message because shard capacity is ridiculously low. To an outside observer, which network looks compromised:
* expensive nodes, low fees extracted
* cheap nodes, fees extracted are 1000x the cost of running nodes
It shouldn't really be called Proof of Work, but Proof of Waste.
Proof of Waste is just an indirect and extremely wasteful form of Proof of Stake. You prove your "stake" which is in the form of mining hardware by running it and finding high difficulty hashes.
@Foobazzler
Proof of Work is a simple proof of capital allocation and to certain extent, your influence and geography also. With lots of money, you are at a massive advantage. Not many can spare $100,000-$500,000 to start a profitable mining operation. But they can purchase bits of ETHs.
Proof of reserves: Possible on a blockchain.
Proof of liabilities: Entity commits to all their liabilities in a Merkle root. Gives each creditor proof that their liability is contained. Then proof of sum of all liabilities.
In
@aklamun
et al.'s excellent stablecoin classification this is called "endogenous collateral". Collateral that is directly tied to the stablecoin protocol leads to a potential death spiral. Avoid all constructions based on this.
I am in favour of this. My feeling is that the name "Data Availability" has caused confusion and "Data Publishing" is clearer.
Still open to better names but so far DP seems most descriptive.
Data Availability is by far the most confusing term we ever came up with. Data Publishing + Data Storage are better terms that are more intuitive. DA = Data Publishing, not Data Storage. Here are few facts that you may be unaware of: ๐งต๐
This take is wrong, but I understand where the many people thinking this are coming from. Ethereum is not a DPoS system.
DPoS systems are designed so that staking is a highly professionalized operation that most people cannot take part in other than by delegating.
@epolynya
@mewn21
@statelayer
i'm sorry but what exactly do you think is happening on ethereum today. it is a delegated PoS system, just a more obscured, harder to participate, and worse one
I want to highlight this: Core devs don't have the last say on what happens on Ethereum, it's the Ethereum community.
I have laid out why I believe the churn rate limit is the right thing to do now (although I was originally tending against). Unfortunately this came very late,โฆ
@sassal0x
@dapplion
@FortuneMagazine
@dannyryan
I agree, a week for community input is **very** short. But mainnet hasn't upgraded to Dencun. (maybe December).
There is still time to shout if the community really disagrees. We are only at testing on devnets.
The case for EIP7514:
It's time to learn about Kate commitments! They are amazing at enabling ZKPs and are now being considered to replace Merkle trees in Ethereum to reduce witness sizes.
Here's an introduction:
#eth2
#ethereum
#statelessethereum
One of the problem with crypto culture is that we call projects scams and ponzis all the time. But a bad or poorly executed project is not a scam.
Warnings about projects that deserve to be called a scam and ponzi, like Terra, are drowned out in the noise.
So we can't delay withdrawals by couple of months for 4844 (which most of the community wants desparately) but then instead will most likely delay both of them for shipping EOF.
Crazy ACD decision.
As Eth2 sharding is coming closer to implementation, analyzing the Legendre PRF primitive is more critical than ever. We are therefore *doubling* the bounties on : you can now claim $20,000 if you find a sub-exponential key recovery algorithm!
Smart contract security is absolutely essential for Ethereum's L2 roadmap.
It will be interesting how this plays out, but in practice this seems to be true: Teams that want to build L2s also prioritize security and do everything they can to avoid bugs.
In contrast, those whoโฆ
"Bridge hacks are one of the largest problems holding us back but L2 will solve that!"
If you think that: think again! Because the majority of bridge hacks are not "bridge operators" getting compromised but bugs in the smart contract systems. Those can (an will!) happen with L2!
What everyone gets wrong about 51% attacks
Correcting the myth that if you control more than 50% of the hashpower in Bitcoin, Ethereum, or another blockchain, then you can do whatever you want with the network.
My arguments on why we should go all in on statelessness, and not aim for an easier intermediate goal.
Partial statelessness or state rent is an unhappy half way house that will make UX (and Devex) worse, with few benefits.
The news of FTX being "hacked" just makes me really sad.
I can't say why, since much worse already happened in the last week. Maybe the pure evilness of SBF likely draining the last funds out hoping to retire somewhere.
Channelling my inner
@aeyakovenko
here: I am more tolerant to downtime since Ethereum is currently an unfinished project. It is just unusable for the vast majority of people and therefore a few hours of downtime matter much less than delivering sharding a few months earlier/later
@das_grasshopper
@skylar_eth
Yeah except that for 99% of people on this planet, Ethereum is constantly down in practice because they simply can never afford to use it.
This is wrong. L2s are indeed more secure because to be an L2 you have to provide the same security as the base layer.
A PoS sidechain has the security of the weaker chain, usually the sidechain.
3/8 Second (and much more important/concerning), implying that L2s are *by default* more secure than PoS sidechains (commit chain in our case) is absolutely wrong and potentially dangerous.
To explain why, let's quickly compare our PoS chain and StarkWare's zkRollup or Validium.
Even now, he just can't stop lying. This makes zero sense. If this were the case, there is NO WAY IN HELL YOU WOULD HAVE ASKED CZ FOR A BAILOUT!
And also, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE SAME ASSETS THAT CLIENTS DEPOSITED. NO MATTER HOW MARKETS FLUCTUATE ALL DEPOSITS SHOULD BE OK!
4) FTX International currently has a total market value of assets/collateral higher than client deposits (moves with prices!).
But that's different from liquidity for delivery--as you can tell from the state of withdrawals. The liquidity varies widely, from very to very little.
I've seen a lot of fear recently that the KZG commitments introduced with 4844/full sharding will be hard to use in ZKRollups.
This is not true! You can make quite efficient use of them in proofs. More details here:
The nice thing about this curve is that it's dual purpose: You can use it to make Inner Product Arguments (like the ones needed for verkle tries) directly and it's fast for that, and you can *also* efficiently reason about these arguments inside BLS12_381 SNARKs.
Great work!
"issuance is not an expense"
Technically correct, but you can model a blockchain as an equivalent business: The business sells blockspace and pays validators to maintain the chain. In that model, the issuance to validators is an expense to the business, and fees that are burntโฆ
@peter_szilagyi
Complexity is like debt. Ideally you want to have none, but then you usually also can't create anything.
So you of course want to minimize the complexity while still creating a system that is useful. Creating complexity in isolation is definitely bad, but are we doing that?
@Protos
Wow, this article is impressively poorly researched.
1. There is a good reason for the rate limit, and it has nothing to do with sell pressure. It exists because of weak subjectivity and is required to make PoS protocols safe:
Are you proud you tricked Bloomberg into writing there are concerns about WETH?
They should have done theirnown research. Just read the smart contract.
Just as I'm sure you fully understand the EVM spec, solidity compiler, BLS cryptography etc. If you do you can indeed be proud.
Contributed to the KZG ceremony!
Amazing work
@CarlBeek
@trent_vanepps
and everyone who contributed!
This will likely not only be the ceremony with the most participants, but also the most secure due to different implementations and entropy sources contributing.
On 2023/05/20 at 07:25:11 UTC, Tornado Cash governance effectively ceased to exist. Through a malicious proposal, an attacker granted themselves 1,200,000 votes. As this is more than the ~700,000 legitimate votes, they now have full control.
BTW. The EVM could process 2k tps if you crank it up to run full time on powerful (solana validator style) nodes. [We don't do it because we care about decentralization and DOS resistance]
So where is that great advantage from running on GPUs?
I think the base layer (=settlement) has to scale as well. Statelessness will have the biggest impact on scaling.
We have made amazing progress on this over the last 6 months and for the first time there is a realistic roadmap:
@boredGenius
That's because it is impossible to build this.
To build a truly decentralized, stable and scalable stablecoin requires decentralized collateral but you are always limited by a small % of that collateral's market cap.
If you want to use ETH (like single collateral DAI) you areโฆ
But why is it that all these very nice academics spend so little time trying to explain their work to the public who funds it?
Instead it is buried in papers that are hard to understand even for those with extensive training in adjacent fields.
Why is it that crypto (and particularly the very nice Eth people), write all these great explainers on various topics, but never give credit who came up with the ideas? You'd think zkSNARKs or private payments came out of industry, not, at least initially, academic work.
Why do the "small time" scammers (compared to SBF) that were already exposed this cycle now get so much attention and invited by top influencers for live streaming? Are we learning nothing?
Next cycle SBF will be back and streaming with Cobie?๐คฎ
we aligned internally today that our medium term scaling goal is to target 1 Ggas/s on
@base
our current target is 2.5 mgas/s, so ~400x, with a long term goal of pushing even further past >1000x
it's pronounced "gigagas" and this is our broadband moment
Quick thread about what probably happened here. A lot of people feel short changed, probably because of the dissonance of some people claiming that smart contracts are incorruptible and provide iron-clad guarantees ("code is law"), and now somehow that does not apply to royalties
@dankrad
@jstn
@kassandraETH
respectfully, iโve now read about 4 threads with people saying they are explaining why royalty enforcement isnโt possible but not actually doing so. Iโve felt like iโve paid attention to this space for the past few years but feel pretty similarly to jstn.
TIL we use 300 kB/s for attestation aggregations (nearly 40% of node traffic)
This seems like a lot, some networking improvements and we can double the number of blobs ๐
@parithosh_j
@Gajpower
@dankrad
@LefterisJP
@BarnabasBusa
@Savid
Comparing a node subscribed to all attnets (left) vs a node subscribed to the default amount (right). There's a lot more aggregate traffic since Dencun
All p2p traffic:
- w/ 2 attnets: 750kB/s
- w/ 64 attnets: 2.5MB/s total
Attestations range from 60% to 90% of the node traffic
@colludingnode
Correct. We were originally going to do verkle with KZG but it turns out it is *more* efficient with IPAs, for the following reasons:
1. At width 256, the polynomials are tiny. Verifying an IPA is actually ~ the same computational complexity as a KZG proof (which requires 2โฆ
EGL is not governance, it is a highly toxic attack on Ethereum.
tldr
- gas limit used to be voted on by miners in coordination w/ core devs
- EGL bribes miners to tokenize & sell that control to the market instead
(cont)
@lemiscate
Not true. The L1 can perfectly well act as a decentralized sequencer, if you can accept L1 finality times.
Now maybe you should post a correction to this tweet. Thank you.
@hdevalence
It is sad that the Cosmos community gaslights people by claiming IBC is trust minimized, when in practice it is just a multisig of a relatively small validator set.
@ercwl
Risks are a lot more than that. The most concrete risk right now is actually to Ethereum governance: A very large Lido makes every decision about Ethereum staking mainly a decision about Lido, while the stETH holders are held "ransom" (many of them are in it for other reasonsโฆ
It's fine to be a Polygon advisor
@hudsonjameson
@RyanSAdams
@sassal0x
@JohnLilic
But I am *very* disappointed with all of you that none have corrected Mihailo on this. The Ethereum community has put a lot of trust in you. Live up to it.
@dankrad
@BTCeurope
@Quiveringsphinx
@loopringorg
What, how can they not introduce an invalid state transition? That would be the biggest breakthrough in consensus algorithms ever! ๐
Majority of stake in *any* consensus can trivially introduce invalid state transitions, I don't know what you're talking about.
This is THE definitive deep dive on Ethereumโs ambitious roadmap.
Special thanks to
@dankrad
for your insights and review!
AND we made an exception to open-source this
Give me an hour of your time, and Iโll save you months of work
Enjoy
@koeppelmann
@tw_tter
Not really true, because it's not the validators who are censoring. Most of them connect to several relays, including censoring and non-censoring ones
@peter_szilagyi
What is the minimal complexity of a decentralized system that can serve the billions of users that we want to serve? You've got to answer that question before unilaterally declaring the system too complex.
@RyanBerckmans
I disagree:
1. Celestiums do NOT provide safe data availability to Ethereum. Celestia is a sidechain to Ethereum, so they do not have more than sidechain security!
2. Celestia actually provides LESS data availability in total than Ethereum's currently planned DA layer.
@das_grasshopper
@skylar_eth
Yeah except that for 99% of people on this planet, Ethereum is constantly down in practice because they simply can never afford to use it.
Less than two days in, we have 2600 contributions to the ceremony.
It has already surpassed the previous record of the largest number of contributors from the Navada Trusted Setup!
The Namada Trusted Setup has been completed!
A big thank you to all participants who contributed in generating the parameters for the MASP.
Contributions in the Trusted Setup might be rewarded as a public good, checkout the recap & keep your keys safe:
Absolutely correct.
It is absolutely crazy that schemes that have been discredited for many years were promoted again. Anyone who was involved should be deeply ashamed.
Terra was a scam.
@EliBenSasson
No we shouldn't just get on. This should be a moment of reflection. A ton of mainstream voices in our industry advocated for this explicitly unsound scheme. We move on after they have lost credibility.
I find it very convincing that long-term, (decentralized) blockspace demand is highly elastic (and very unlikely to be inelastic).
Are there any good economic arguments for or against this, other than looking at some use cases that become possible at certain prices?