New model for peopling of India. Main conclusion, most Indian caste and tribe populations have up to 60% or higher common ancestry from a single Palaeolithic node we label as Indian Palaeolithic One here
@Jaambudweepa
it's a done deal now that I've discovered Professor Luders' entire work. All d pain he took to uncover ancient textual evidence to prove that the direction of movement was unequivocally in one direction between ancient India and E Turkestan, salute
@ThunderBearFire
Thread on
#Ror
history as told by traditional historians
Several people on this platform have requested me to share some details about the traditional narrative on
#Ror
history. So, I'm starting this thread today but it may take a few days to complete 1/n
Here is Neeraj's grandmother clearly saying he has done wonders for the Ror biradari (notice there is no mention of Maratha, haha).
It's sad this needs to be shared just to dispel the myths being propagated by a few people on this platform
The question I have is this, how can you indianize an Indian people. Of the mummies found at Xiaohe dating from 2000BC, most were yDNA Hg R1a and the last K*. This combination in a population is interesting; R1a could be argued to be from the steppes on its own but 1/2
One of the earliest Mural from what is today's Xinjiang in China depicting king honoring sages. This is a scene from Vessantara Jataka, dateable to around 3rd century CE.
Xinjiang was Indianized by the start of common era.
This 2020 paper by Arnason and Hallstrom is worth serious consideration. Southern Eurasia, including India, may represent the origin spot of the Homo Sapien Sapien or the modern human species
@NirajRai3
Excellent work,
@NirajRai3
and
@gyanc7
The Reich Narasimhan model was always very susceptible to weaknesses from multiple angles. For instance, they attribute some of their clines to cattle spread but we know the more ancient spread is of bos Indicus and it's herders 1/2
Just ran Snappy on our 2018 paper data and found one of the Gujjar samples to be R1b1a2-V88, which is ancestral to West European R1b and also a backflow to Africa participant. What an amazing discovery, sometimes it's awesome to re-analyse old data :)
@apatk
@gyanc7
"These were tall people; the range of estimated stature for males is from 174 to 192 cm" Kenneth Kennedy describing the 10 to 12ky old human specimens discovered at Sarai Nahar Rai (Pratapgarh, UP)
Amazing analysis out of the new Iranian plateau paper. NW Indians and Pakistanis carry the hub population signature, and the authors are unable to rule out the OOA hub having been in N India
Hello friends and followers! Please watch a new video where we discuss implications of Shriner's "Ancient human migration after out of Africa" paper and how it supports an early Indian impact on European ancestors
A thread on genetic distances of different Indian groups to various ANI (Ancestral North Indian) proxy populations. We don't aim to push propaganda here to favour any one of these populations over the others. Let's start with Kalasha 1/n
The Rajputs in the Indian Human Origins data are most definitely Haryanvi (or have a major/majority representation of HR Rajputs) based on the placement on this PCA plot
Okay guys!
@yajnadevam
this graph has been tested by me multiple times and more or less this is fixed, i.e., it doesn't change a lot. I've now included the Rakhigarhi sample. ANI (Ror) is very interesting as it gets 57% from a basal source
@agenetics1
@eRahulChawla
@apatk
1/2
The 1500BC era wheat barley combo in the Tarim basin again points to Haryana, Rajasthan, Sindh area. Best part is after that legumes came into the region, which also seem to have been transmitted through Kashmir. How can Indian scholars ignore all of this evidence?
We used DATES to look into the oldest Iran Neolithic like and Andaman HG like admixture event in the whole genome samples collected from the Rors of N India.
Results surprisingly vindicate
@NirajRai3
. I'm more than happy to confirm that earlier than 3600ybp (centre of range) ANI
We use find graphs functionality in admixtools 2 to validate Professor Luders' conclusion that Loulan in Xinjiang was established out of Roruka in Sindh. We also show that present-day Ror population from the Haryana region is a good proxy for this input to the Xinjiang region
#forgottenhistory
Jauhar detected in the genealogical records of Dahiya (Jharautia) Rors. Back calculation from the date of establishment of their present village of Gudha gives a time estimate coinciding with Balban's era
New Paper-
-42,000 yrs ago, a grp of H Sapiens reached Bachi Kiro cave, Bulgaria
-En route they interbred with Neanderthals
-They plot closer to Ust’Ishim & Oase1 samples than W Eurasians
-Y haplogroup-Basal F-M89 (Indian) & C1
-Mitochondrial DNA M(Indian)
Alright folks! Have finally updated my analysis from last year to include Zlaty Kun, Bacho Kiro and a few other interesting samples. Please also note that the results for 'Ror' here are updated based on whole genome sequencing
Turns out one of the inscriptions on the Dilli Meerut pillar is talking about a Ror person called Vira Pala. The date on the inscription is VS 1369 or 1312 AD
#Ror
#Kshatriya
Never expected it to be a simple picture; this is the most likely scenario of how North Indian genetics has come about. My proposed date, based on this, of the ethnogenesis of modern day North Indians is 5-6th millennium BC.
Friends! In response to the excellent critique done by
@agenetics1
on the previous phylogeny using eight admixture events, we changed a few parameters and this new graph was run using a much higher SNP count (~300k) and fewer admixture events
Most certainly incorrect, please check The South Asian Genome 2014 by Jaspal Singh, Weihua et al. ANI rich Indians share a far greater number of alleles with both Africans as well as Europeans. Essentially, if we imagine an ancestral Indian group minus ANI, it simply can't look
Hypothetical reconstruction of a man from the
#IndusValleyCivilization
with higher levels of AASI ancestry. The Bronze Age population of the Indus was a mix of indigenous AASI (Andamanese-like) and Neolithic Iranian ancestry, to varying degrees. They lacked the Aryan component
This is a very incorrect conclusion based on incomplete Indian data. This paper is missing North Indian and Pakistani evidence, which would conclusively prove this to be a northern subcontinental rather than a West Asian phenomenon
Very interesting results from the Vahaduo app. It shows I have close to 6% neanderthal ancestry. The complete breakdown it gives for my ancestry is: Iran Mesolithic 52.4%; Oase1 Upper Palaeolithic 41.8%; Mezmaiskaya Neanderthal 4.2%; finally, Ancient Neanderthal 1.6%
@tjoseph0010
@ProfVemsani
She is right, Mr. Joseph! To understand her idea you need to be aware of this back migration into North and East Africa from the Indian subcontinent around the Holocene. Basal Eurasian bloodlines were involved
This is a myth-buster thread as there still seems to persist a significant group among Haryana Rors who continue to ignore scientific evidence to claim a Maratha connection via the third battle of Panipat.
This is mostly a fact based thread (no emotions allowed) 1/n
@NirajRai3
@gyanc7
So, any model that is not able to resolve this migration out of the Indus valley, North and West India is bound to be a bit forced (euphemism).
Similarly, there are other weaknesses, some of which are highlighted well (indirectly) in the 2019 paper by Aleksandr Semenenko
The immediate ancestor of Indian Palaeolithic One, the node labelled Indian Palaeolithic Zero here is also the ancestor of EHG and many Central Asian populations with similar ancestry profile as EHG
As per the bards there are two fundamental branches among the Ror, one owing its origin to the Suryavamsa and another deriving from the Yayati branch of Kshatriyas (Chandravamsa) 2/n
Very logical given we had achieved domestication at an early date. Cattle and buffalo domestication are equally complex or simple. Therefore, it makes sense buffalo domestication happened very close to bos indicus domestication
At Bhirrana
"Bones of domestic buffalo although few were identified in all the periods"(Arati:2016)
Let me repeat
"in all periods"
Oldest period can be dated to 9600 BP to 8000 BP
So this evidence shows the earliest domesticated buffaloes came much before 8000 BP
Hail the Brahmins and especially those of them who do bardic work!
Need to share this amazing piece of information shared by the bards with everyone. So, there is gotra in my relationship circle called Samdhyan and one of their big villages is called Jamba 1/2
R1a in conjunction with K* points to a movement from the Indian subcontinent. It's not just isolated to the paternal lineages, many of the maternal lineages found U7, M5, H etc have also been observed in Haryana.
We can extend this to crop patterns, again 2/3
The problem with genetics in relation to modelling of Haryana populations is that the only reference ancient genomes are collected from the steppe region.
As per oral history (bards have a detailed narrative), Rors started in Prayag, had a long association with Northern Gujarat
R-Y7 spread pattern - the Chinese spread till Liaoning coincides with the discovery of Prakrit injunctions (Mallory et al) issued by the administration of the Loulan kingdom operating out of Xinjiang (East Turkestan)
@AgentSaffron
That perfectly exemplifies the assymetry that exists in how the natives perceive the foreign ideology and how the adherents of the ideology perceive the natives
Same story with Thanesar. Spooner's excavations show it was a dazzling place in its heyday, sacked by Ghazni in the 11th century. After that, it didn't take long for the famed citadel founded millennia ago by Kuruvanshi Raja Dileep to turn into a mound (Harsha ka tila)
By corollary, Mauryas would be
#Ror
too as they have been known to be related to both Maukharis and Gupts in the estimation of several scholars. The Bhumihar Ror genetic similarities may have a solid historical foundation, it appears to me
Please read the latest post on our blog using the link shared here. In this post, we present a detailed discussion on the recently proposed model for the "Peopling of India"
@sridev_yogi
Significant presence of the blue eye allele in the subcontinent: The 1000 genomes cohorts from all corners of the subcontinent have a decent presence of this polymorphism. UP Brahmin - 10%, Punjabi in Lahore - 9.5%, Bengali (B'desh) - 8%+, Tamil, Telugu and Gujaratis 3-6%
@VishnuN70701353
@yogeshk55487839
Guys! It's game over, attached are two powerful pieces of evidence. Paternal hg F* contour map in India and a hierarchical cluster tree of Hg Q from Poznik et al. 1/2
This is the simplified view presented by Arnason and Hallstrom. I must say this does agree very well with the lower proportion of neanderthal ancestry in Africans
@VishnuN70701353
@yajnadevam
BTW, it seems like blue eyes may have been common in the IVC. 40% of the Shahr-i-Sokhta BA2 samples appear to have the allele.
So, we don't need to correlate this feature in the subcontinent to any steppe carriers
Zebu presence in Central Asia and Turkestan started 3000 to 2500 years B.C. It also confirms the view once expressed by Frederiks who believed that zebu had appeared in Turkestan before they came to Mesopotamia or at least they spread into the two regions at the same time.
A point worth noting is that there isn't a lot of drift between Indian Palaeolithic Zero and Indian Palaeolithic One, which means these are nearly the same (identical) group of people
Bada bhai to Haryana hi hai, mere bhai! Yeh kuchh sadiyon ka itihaas jiske adhar pe Unionist vichardhara k log Punjab ko bada bhai batane lage hain. In logo se main kahunga Vedic itihaas utha k dekho, Kuruvamsa ka itihaas dekho, bada bhai sada se Haryana hi tha
Would anyone here know if Bhumihars are closely related to certain Brahmin clans?
I'm asking because some of the Fst (genetic distance) estimates are extremely low
There's a missing hunter-gatherer in the Indian archeological record. Being a bit more specific, there's a hunter-gatherer, other than the Andamanese hunter-gatherer related group, that also played a major role in the formation of modern Indians. 1/n
This thread is going to be dedicated to Raul-vel, possibly one of the oldest hindi poems dating to the 11th century. It was found inscribed on a rock in Dhar (Malwa, Madhya Pradesh). Both towards the beginning and end of the poem, the words "Ror Raul-vel" appear 1/n
Similar to the results from the Rakhigarhi ancient sample given out by
@NirajRai3
and Prof Shinde, we fail to detect steppe ancestry prior to 2050ybp (centre of range)
Starting with the Yayati branch, the narrative goes that Durdaan was born in this lineage and he shifted from Prayag to Northern Gujarat, where he founded a city by the name of Khatkanagari 3/n
Tejinder Singh Walia reports a letter, from the Officiating DC of Thanesar McNeil, in his Dastan-e-Haryana 1857 that the Ranghads and Rors of Bangar love their weapons as much as their children
@ProfVasant
Dear Professor! As promised please find our latest article that validates your model for the Rakhigarhi people using a completely different set of populations
This thread is dedicated to the Reddy, Raju, Kamma, Velama, Bhatraju, and Kapu populations.
We'll try to include all existing papers or samples if we are able to access/find them.
Please feel free to contribute to this thread 1/n
Genetics is such a powerful resource. Today, I would like to share with my friends and followers how genetic genealogy can be used to confirm historical hypotheses 1/n
As promised previously, I'm now posting my recent analysis of Indian-like populations since the Palaeolithic era in three parts, this being a comparison of Indians with Palaeolithic era Europeans 1/n
A thread on Brahmins' relations with the Ror
We'll try to shed some light on this topic using a few historical incidents. The first incident we shall talk about is related to a Brahmin girl's abduction by the Saiyyads of Nissing 1/n
The CHG Birhor (alternatively, Irula ancestors) admixture in North India can be older than 200 generations. The snapshot here is from a 'Malder' output using Ror as the reference for N Indians
Hello friends! Please give me some feedback on this hierarchical clustering of Indian subcontinental populations based on Fst (genomic differentiation estimates) distances. I'll try to refine this analysis further based on your views 🙏
At several places in the Ṛgveda, Sāyaṇācārya takes the word 'vipra' to mean 'medhāvin' (the one who possesses medhā).
It seems that the early use of the word 'vipra' was not in the sense of a person of the Brāhmaṇa varṇa.
As per Maria Ivanova, Maikop had a homeland in South Central Asia (includes parts of North India and Pakistan). Whole genome data in my possession supports this because Ancestral North Indian proxy (Ror) can be modelled as 50% Maikop and 50% Riang (a NE Indian group)
Instead, those people were replaced by genetically distinct Hunter-gatherers who carried ancestry from parts of SW Asia (presumably, Sindh included) and trekked into N Italy by 17kya, as the ice age began to wane
Paraphrased from
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