Jatin Ramanathan @JatinRamanathan Twitter profile

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

Following months of close collaboration across many framework and library authors, there is a poposal to add Signals to JavaScript!

GitHub - tc39/proposal-signals: A proposal to add signals to JavaScript.

A proposal to add signals to JavaScript. Contribute to tc39/proposal-signals development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

Unforgettable three days hanging out with so many new friends. I cannot believe I got to meet folks from Vue, Vite, Nuxt, Solid, Qwik and Svelte all in one place within such a short time. Everyone was so welcoming. Can't wait to see y'all again soon!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 years

@tomlienard @mattpocockuk lemonade sounds like a french monad

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

Just got back from @devworld_conf in Amsterdam. I am very grateful for the opportunity to talk about Web Development at Google with @hdjirdeh and @mgechev . Thanks @josgerards88 and others for organizing such a great conference!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

5 months

@sarah_edo convergent evolution seems to be a trend

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

18 days

@angular @tbondwilkinson You can follow along as the code lands here: . It is exciting to see the code that powers making its way into Angular to deliver new capabilities to the framework.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

24 days

@hernan_yadiel @mgechev As long as data fetching is a side-effect of rendering, composability is limited due to waterfalls. Too many suspense boundaries can also result in popcorn UI. I think declarative data fetching ("loader" style APIs) will likely keep getting better.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

@droidpac96702 There's always work to bring various low level APIs together. Note how the signals proposal does not include an effect API. Effects are often deeply integrated with UI updates that are highly framework dependent.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@patak_dev @danielcroe @_jessicasachs @RyanCarniato @shai_reznik @sheremet_va @youyuxi @maiieul Thoroughly enjoyed the chat and I have the napkin design doc to prove it!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

Very well covered! Thanks @t3dotgg

If this ships, it will change javascript forever

Signals in JavaScript might be at Stage 0, but it's a very exciting Stage 0 proposal. My love of Solid forces me to be hypedSOURCEShttps://github.com/proposa...

www.youtube.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

20 days

@jherr Thank you for covering Signals on your channel Jack! If you are interested in Signals join us on discord here: . We are trying to discover use cases, discuss the API and showcase work like this.

Discord - A New Way to Chat with Friends & Communities

Discord is the easiest way to communicate over voice, video, and text. Chat, hang out, and stay close with your friends and communities.

discord.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

also @JulienHuang_dev , @TheAlexLichter , @jeffbcross and so many more

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@solid_js congrats!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

a choice foretold by the ancients. which one do you prefer?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@nahum_zsilva @sarah_edo Not related at all. Wiz and Angular are two separate Web frameworks (like React and Svelte are different frameworks). If you are looking for a metaframework for Angular check out @analogjs . That's more like nextjs or nuxt.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

4 months

@rossipedia definitely not Polymer

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

5 months

@RyanCarniato wonder if isomorphic rendering and data fetching will mature as an alternative to server-only or client-only components 🤔

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@mhevery @QwikDev Combines fine-grained UI updates and fine-grained code loading into a single classic combo like surf and turf.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@camelburrito @sarah_edo Couldn't have done it without you and your team being with us every step of the way! 🙏

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@tomasz_ducin this sounds like "stores". this requirement has emerged among some early adopters of Angular Signals at Google. is there any existing implementation of stores in the open siurce that you like?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

4 months

@mehulsharmamat @DhravyaShah Principle #1 : Pre rendered pages are not optional

7 Principles of Rich Web Applications

7 actionable principles for websites that want to make use of JavaScript to control their UI and deliver the best performance

rauchg.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@RyanCarniato @AdamRackis tune in to @ngconf keynote next week for a special update on how Signals are paving the way forward!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@patak_dev vite-plugin-wiz? hang on, I think I still have that napkin somewhere...

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@dmitriid There is no silver bullet for all performance problems. In fact, even if you have a framework that blows others away on some benchmark, that is insufficient. The real challenge is to maintain performance over multiple years, across 100s of developers and 1000s of features. It is…

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@Rich_Harris Does it fall back to a hard reload after a day (the maximum time)?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 years

@cramforce isnt react the only "meta" framework?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@RyanCarniato @PatrickJS__ @TkDodo I think there might be an opportunity here to develop something framework agnostic. this is a primitive, like signals.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@PatrickJS__ @RyanCarniato @TkDodo @zachwritescode got a link? and yes, that's the way to do it! ideally event recording and replay should kick in even before the page finishes streaming.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@bentonnnnnn @dmitriid we added a few things over the last two years. "wiz client components" I guess? a TSX based authoring format with signals for declarative UI updates. signals stay fast due to fine grained updates and since the memoization burden is lower. you only need to worry about…

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

@Dominus_Kelvin @angular ship less JavaScript isn't the primary goal. the goal is to ship JavaScript responsibly. ship as much as you need! systemic code-splitting, multiple entry points on the same page, be intentional about when the JavaScript is loaded, when it is executed, break up long tasks, etc.…

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@RyanCarniato @PatrickJS__ @TkDodo how does solid start handle async bubbling when mixing PE and event replay? does it recreate async bubbling by providing global delegation for all event handlers?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@devagrawal09 @AdamRackis @cramforce

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@dmitriid Thank you for attempting to keep us honset Dmitrii. I'm going to try a good faith answer here. If you see this part () of the keynote you will notice Chris is talking about UI update performance (e.g. 60 fps).

NG Conf 2024 Wednesday Morning Keynote w Jeremy Elbourn & Minko Gechev

ng-conf 2024 is a two-day double track conference focused on building the Angular community. Meet the Angular Team and some of the biggest names in the comm...

www.youtube.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@PatrickJS__ @RyanCarniato @TkDodo on it!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@dmitriid Lighthouse is important. But Signals (fine grained updates) shine when it comes to UI updates. Typically, users use a product like YouTube for long periods of time. For such businesses on-going performance (i.e. UI update performance) matters more than initial load latency.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@PatrickJS__ @RyanCarniato @TkDodo @jeffwhelpley why does the readme say preboot is unnecessary with recent versions of Angular? iiic Angular SSR continues to drop events even with non-destructive hydration.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@_developit @mhevery @smearthelove @builderio To achieve full resumability you have to serialize the signal graph itself. Without the graph you need a hydration pass to get things going. This might not be a big deal if you have fine grained islands. But a deeply resumable framework might not accept the hydration requirement

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

8 months

@WarrenInTheBuff where are the lasers?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@Julian_Cataldo @vite_js @antfu7 @shoelace_style @buildWithLit Did you consider using vinxi?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

@DanielGlejzner maybe signals can find a place if somehow the signals themselves aren't directly exposed to the developer. for example, a compiler might be able to generate code that uses signals for auto-tracking. or maybe not, I'm not a react dev 🫣

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

7 months

@justinfagnani Wiz found a way, but definitely interested in making this available to other frameworks!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

7 months

@Jean__Meche @Enea_Jahollari What if LazyServiceA injects ServiceB which in turn inject LazyServiceC. Now when ComponentFoo injects LazyServiceA it'll take two round trips to instantiate. A deeper compiler integration might be able to avoid this.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

@DanielGlejzner the programming model of react is simpler for developers because they do not need to distinguish b/w reactive and non-reactive props. for a component author, all props are non-reactive. if they do change, throw everything away and make a new component.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@modderme123 @pkozlowski_os Dynamic edges should be dashed lines with a color or thickness representing whether it is "active". This visualization is great! Adding colors to demonstrate the tristate push-pull-push and animating will finish the TikTok that explains Signals (Signals in 100s?) @fireship_dev :)

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@pkozlowski_os @modderme123 @fireship_dev some edges are provably compile time constant. could be useful for compiler-based optimizations like topo sorts. a library runtime should support that so compilers (or super users) can take advantage of it.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@BHolmesDev 😋yum! love recipies that optimize for time to "first bite". how can the stack be interactive on first render? dropping events because hydration is beind a network roundtrip is yuck.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

13 days

@mipsytipsy a dark launch - "Dark launching can also enable parallel running of a re-implemented feature. The old and new code can both be called and their results checked to see if there are changes with the new algorithm, but only one answer returned to the…

bliki: Dark Launching

Execute back-end code but don't show results, in order to assess impact on back-end systems

martinfowler.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@jherr yes and it should load the client code only if the server component actually ran

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 month

@DanielGlejzner this mental model is valuable and worth preserving. if devs are writing signals - suddenly signals can be passed as props and that spoils the update story.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

5 months

@devagrawal09 this is the one! for the best devex it should be implemented by monkey patching browser APIs like createElement, setAttribute and appendChild. We shall call it "DOMes.js". developers simply keep making DOM and Angular automatically turns it into VDOM 🤯

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

4 months

@tomasz_ducin @synalx I have an async joke, but you need to await.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@_developit @mhevery @smearthelove @builderio Based on my experiemce you only need to serialize the produces and consumers (1/3)

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

4 months

@tomasz_ducin @synalx nice!

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 months

@nullvoxpopuli @sarah_edo YouTube is adopting Wiz. APIs like rendering, event binding & component lifecycle are currently provided by Wiz. Wiz and Angular share the reactivity library and thus YouTube uses Angular signals. Over time we expect the level of code sharing b/w the fwks to increase.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

5 months

@PatrickJS__ @ThePrimeagen ah the try/catch "tower of terror" @fireship_dev

Async Await try-catch hell

Async Await is heaven... until error handling comes into play. Learn how to avoid try/catch hell when writing async JavaScript code. #shorts #js #programming

www.youtube.com

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

7 months

@Enea_Jahollari @Jean__Meche How does this deal with waterfalls (cascading network fetches)?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

2 years

@mhevery Ah, the data deserialization logic is not application specific if Qwik ships a single generic serializer/deserializer. Like always using JSON. Is that what happens?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@dan_abramov Wiz does this. Components declare data dependencies. The framework kicks off all data fetches before starting to render. As the static bits at the start of the page are rendered they are streamed to the browser. Keeps going till templates deref a future that hasn't settled yet.

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

3 months

@RyanEls4 and [()] is banana-in-a-box

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

29 days

Does anyone have a @getairchat invite?

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Jatin Ramanathan

@JatinRamanathan

1 year

@BenLesh RPC abstractions have provided Zod-like type-safety since 2016. The three things that make it great are (1) Type Safe (2) Asynchronous APIs (3) Interceptors. #3 is a gold mine over the years. JSON vS gRPC is a false choice. The gRPC spec doesn't preclude using JSON serialization.

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