Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ @robertltsai Twitter profile | Pikagi

Pikagi

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

@robertltsai

6,328

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1,509

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DEMAND THE IMPOSSIBLE: ONE LAWYER’S PURSUIT OF EQUAL JUSTICE FOR ALL @WWNorton • Rockefeller Fellow, @Princeton • Harry Elwood Warren Scholar & Prof @BU_Law

Boston & Washington, DC

https://t.co/Qhqbd0SB92

Joined November 2013

Don't wanna be here? Send us removal request.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 months

Today is publication day!⭐️ Learn how a boy of humble origins became one of the fiercest critics of the criminal justice system and a fearless advocate for racial equality. I hope you enjoy DEMAND THE IMPOSSIBLE as much as I enjoyed writing it. @wwnorton

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

Raise your hand if you knew that in May 1937 the New York Times did a gauzy profile of Hitler, painting him as a “Bohemian” with an “artistic temperament”? 🙋🏼‍♂️

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Most people will remember him as “Joe,” who made hotcakes over a hot grill at the Lighthouse Cafe in Port Townsend, Washington. He passed away peacefully tonight around 6:45 pm EST at the age of 88 after a weeklong bout with pneumonia. This is how I’ll remember my father.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

It’s a hell of a thing if the mere assertion of executive privilege by someone who no longer holds office can stop an existing officeholder from engaging in a core executive function.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Slavery was unquestionably dehumanizing and wrong. Yet anti-slavery authoritarianism was nearly as awful. Here’s how. By Andrew Sullivan

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

The Supreme Court itself has repeatedly said that protest by citizens on public streets and sidewalks has been part of our tradition “since time immemorial.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

Charles Fried, Reagan conservative, flays Trump: “The principal one is ‘to take care that the laws be faithfully executed.’ The laws made by Congress. And to do so faithfully. Not trickily. Not underhandedly...”

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Reagan's Solicitor General Says 'All Honorable People' Left Trump's Cabinet

Former solicitor general under Reagan and Harvard Law Professor Charles Fried blasts President Trump and William Barr, saying of Barr, "You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas. His reputation...

www.newsweek.com

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

9 months

Judge: Mr. Tsai, what do teach? Me: Constitutional Law, Inequality, Democratic Reform, Crim Pro Judge: What do you write about? Me: Legal theory, constitutional history, race and poverty in the criminal justice system, prosecutorial abuse Judge: Thank you, you’re excused.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Federal judge Jed Rakoff:

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

10 months

Once you accept that SCOTUS behaves as a constitutional policymaking body, you won’t be surprised that originalism is used situationally and strategically.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

In his ruling, Judge Kacsmaryk repeatedly uses the term “abortionists” to describe health care workers who help terminate pregnancies. One way to recognize movement judges is they will use mobilized rhetoric like other movement figures.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

Unidentified feds whaled on him, breaking his hand, and gassed him. Here’s his reaction.

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@PDXzane

Zane Sparling

4 years

Federal police strike protester with baton, use pepper spray and tear gas outside courthouse in Portland

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Goodbye, Dad, hope you get to meet up with your buddies again somewhere

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Most people will remember him as “Joe,” who made hotcakes over a hot grill at the Lighthouse Cafe in Port Townsend, Washington. He passed away peacefully tonight around 6:45 pm EST at the age of 88 after a weeklong bout with pneumonia. This is how I’ll remember my father.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

With the presiding judge next to him, Steve Bright goes after the Texas Ct. of Criminal Appeals for upholding death sentences when court-appointed lawyers slept through trial: “If a sleeping lawyer is competent counsel, then there really is no such thing as incompetent counsel.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/2 Here he is lauded as “a great improvisator” who loves to talk with “many kinds of people”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/3 “Where Hitler Dreams” and eats his honey and cheese. He’s practically an “unaffected private gentleman.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/4 Here’s the sexy shot of Hitler in his shorts and stockings where he says he doesn’t dream of becoming rich but prays modestly that “my people will build a house here for me.” I bet most readers took it literally when he meant it figuratively.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/6 Just to be clear, the essay is the feature of the @nytimes Magazine on May 30, 1937. Here’s a link though you need a subscription.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

The deep skepticism of Congress that runs through Trump v. Mazars shouldn't surprise us when we understand that most of the justices sitting on the Roberts Court were former executive branch lawyers. The people deserve judges with broader life and practice experiences.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/8 “the Fuehrer is always on duty, even when on vacation” 😌

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/5 I love that some “methodical people” are supposedly whispering that Hitler isn’t dedicated enough to “concentrated work” 👆🏼

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Whoa! In the final section where a judge is supposed to balance the equities before granting an injunction, the judge accuses the federal government of making eugenic arguments simply because they point out an interest in families being able to take care of any existing children.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

/7 🤭

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

5 years

"I picked the cotton, and I carried it to market, and I built the railroads, under someone else's whip, for nothing. For nothing." The great James Baldwin in his 1965 debate against William F. Buckley at Cambridge Union. Read my review essay @BostonReview :

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Good morning, today is the first day of Constitutional Law. I believe in grabbing on to the bull by the horns and hanging on for dear life: We start with Dobbs.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

@MichaelMaloneNZ @sarahkendzior Right. And laws excluding Jewish people from public employment and universities, denying them citizenship, barring intermarriage, and disenfranchising them had already been enacted—drawing on American laws aimed at black citizens.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Joe was born Tso Wen-Ko in May 1934. Here he is on the left, with his father, Tso Yu-Chtao. Likely taken in Hua-Tien Hsien, Chi-Lin Province of China.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

How it started. How it’s going @derspiegel

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Discrediting the right to reproductive autonomy by associating it with the worst abuses of eugenic policies is a longtime movement tactic.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

Not five minutes ago, an older woman looked right in my eyes and yelled “Fuck you!” She kept moving, so I didn’t pepper spray her.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

You’ve had many adventures, experienced your share of hardship and joy, love and companionship. Rest easy now, Joe. /END

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

6 months

Excellent news

@Phil_Lewis_

philip lewis

6 months

Michigan is set to become the first state in the nation that would automatically register people to vote as they leave prison

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

Last winter when I realized the Articles of Impeachment left out Trump’s Emoluments Clause violations.

@WashProbs

Washingtonian Problems

4 years

Caption this (DC edition)

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Because he had known severe deprivation, he was constantly worried we would run out of money. This was a source of conflict and irritation in the family. But his greatest gift was to tell me there would always be money for books.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

He didn’t care what I read: fantasy stories, classics, trashy novels, horror tales. If a book I wanted was not available through the library he would tell me to order it from the bookstore down the street. And every week he reached into his pocket and gave me $ 5 for comic books.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

6 years

“But the most powerful moment” that “shredded the committee’s absurd focus on a handful of texts...came courtesy of one of the sharpest lawyers in Congress, Maryland Congressman Jamie Raskin.” ⁦ @RepRaskin ⁩

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

More babies from @Harvard_Press . Who wants one?

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

9 months

Happens every time. Will report back if they keep me on a jury.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

“During ten days in late December 1831 into January 1832, nearly 60,000 slaves (about 20% of the enslaved population of 300,000) led by the black Baptist preacher Samuel Sharpe went on strike and rebelled against plantation owners, demanding freedom and higher wages” @Y__Barragan

@BlkPerspectives

Black Perspectives

@BlkPerspectives

4 years

In what has now become a yearly tradition we return to @Y__Barragan ’s wondetful essay— Christmas and Resistance to Slavery in the Americas via @AAIHS

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

Woke up in a cold sweat worrying about what @CoryBooker might do if he goes back to the ‘burbs.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

I didn’t know until I was older that in Taiwan he had been a good student and gone to judge’s training school.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

BREAKING: 6 justices say fuck it, just arm everybody but keep the fences up around our building.

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@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

The use of such language betrays the social circles and ideological priors of the judge. It’s also evidence of possible collateral consequences of Dobbs: jurists becoming emboldened or careless re: appearing disinterested in legal outcomes.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

He performed well enough that he got to start as a district judge in Taipei

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Excited to announce that a new constitutional history journal will soon launch based @WisconsinLaw . The journal will strive to fill the gap between traditional history journals and popular outlets. Any member of the Senior Editorial Board would be happy to answer questions.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

still my greatest pandemic achievement

@ratemyskyperoom

Room Rater

@ratemyskyperoom

4 years

Room Rater Update. Books changed to proper vertical position. 9/10 @robertltsai

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

So the cat is out of the bag! Starting next semester, I’ll be joining the faculty of @BU_Law . I’ll miss my @AUWCL colleagues and students, but remember: we are all just one sketchy Zoom call away from one another. @BU_Tweets

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

He didn’t have the disposition of a soldier. He wanted to read books.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Whew, that allusion to Dobbs, SCOTUS, and the price of federal judges taking themselves (selectively) off the field of social action.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

He was in Beijing studying at the time when the Communist revolution occurred. He fled, not wanting to fight for either Mao’s forces or the nationalists. But he became a refugee in Taiwan and was eventually conscripted into the army.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

On this fine day, I am doing research into the backgrounds of judges in Georgia who belonged to segregationist groups, helped keep numbers of black citizens in jury pools low, and looked the other ways as prosecutors rigged all-white juries in capital trials vs black defendants.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

I’m away from my cache of older photos, but one taken at the Lighthouse Cafe early 1980s I think. Dad on the left.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

Steve Bright takes on Posner: you have no idea how awful a “bare-bones” system is or else you are simply indifferent to the unequal suffering it tolerates.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

5 years

Some will fault @staceyabrams for not being more magnanimous, but I think she threads the needle here in a way that acknowledges the rule of law as it exists—which will determine Kemp as the winner—and preserves her deeper critique that the process was, and remains, deeply flawed

@RealSaavedra

Ryan Saavedra

5 years

Democrat Stacey Abrams acknowledges she has lost to Republican Brian Kemp, says the election was illegitimate: “Let’s be clear, this is not a speech of concession because concession means to acknowledge an action is right, true, or proper … I cannot concede that.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

9 months

This time, after lunch, the judge asked me: If I gave you a jury instruction you disagreed with, could you still apply it? Me: If I had a problem I’d send you a note. Lasted until peremptory strike stage, bounced again. 14 jurors picked, murder trial started immediately.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

To refuse to consider a nominee or treat her differently simply because of her religion would amount to discrimination. But to probe how a nominee’s beliefs—religious or secular—might shape how she interprets the law is due diligence and the least we should expect.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Scraping together enough for a down payment on the Lighthouse Cafe is what brought us out to Port Townsend, then population 5,000.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

As far as I can tell, the only justices who have used that term (so far) in judicial opinions are Alito and Thomas.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

For many different reasons he decided to start over, like so many immigrants. He was lucky to be admitted to the US, but could not restart his legal career. Joe took odd jobs until a hotel chef in Seattle took the time to teach him how to make American fare.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

This includes outside of the homes of powerful people.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

another trip around the sun

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

He once told me the story of how he evaded Communist soldiers while on the mainland and then hid from KMT soldiers on a train once he made it to Taiwan.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

@Chris_Grosse @lmacthompson1

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

As Co-Chair of Appointments this year, I am absolutely delighted to welcome these incredible scholars and teachers to @BU_Law : @AzizaAhmed @hartzog @NgoziOkidegbe Steve Koh (BC). I can’t want to see you all in the fall!

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

He said that those who didn’t do as well on the exams were sent to the countryside to resolve disputes over stolen chickens. Those who did well could serve as judges in a city.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

6 years

/5 @RonanFarrow describes the hairstyle of Tom Countryman, senior arms control expert: “It was a diplomat’s mullet: peace in the front, war in the back.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

So this Hitler tweet took off. I don’t have SoundCloud, but you can check out my books and essays here:

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Fetal personhood is an anti-abortion movement goal, though it had once been seen as too outlandish to be taken seriously. Lots of historical problems and consequentialist concerns with the argument on the merits.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

15 days

Sweet Jesus, yes! I've been carrying these student loans since the 90s.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Coach-led prayers are about as voluntary as off-season workouts.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

But he grew increasingly concerned about partisan mischief during elections. The last straw for him was a contested election that was assigned to him to resolve. But that’s a story for another day.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

More recent photos of the Lighthouse Cafe

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

The paperback version of PRACTICAL EQUALITY will be out this fall. Assuming you despise Hitler and believe in equality, you can pre-order here:

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Practical Equality: Forging Justice in a Divided Nation

Practical Equality: Forging Justice in a Divided Nation

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 month

Delighted to share this news that I’ve been appointed to be a ‘24-‘25 Laurance Rockefeller Fellow at ⁦ @Princeton ’s⁩ University Center for Human Values. Looking forward to meeting the other fellows.

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Announcing our incoming Laurance S. Rockefeller Visiting Faculty Fellows for 2024-25

UCHV is pleased to welcome eight Laurance S. Rockefeller Visiting Faculty Fellows to campus for the 2024-25 academic year.

uchv.princeton.edu

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

About last night... @realDonaldTrump @muggedtweets

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

🐟🐠🦪

@robertltsai

Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Found a picture of the restaurant when my family ran it. The key is the sandwich board advertising fresh (grilled) salmon, halibut, cod, and oysters.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

Welcome to new followers! I tweet about con law, legal history, and political theory. I’m writing a book about Steve Bright, former public defender who ended up as one of the greatest death penalty lawyers of his generation. You’ll see some tweets about that project too.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

5 months

@ChrisVannini They looked like half a team against MI: good D, completely inept O

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

PS, I wrote a bit about unequal patterns of small town life and wrote these words about my father, in an essay called, “Somewhere, U.S.A.” The entire volume #AfterLife is extraordinary.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

11 months

DEMAND THE IMPOSSIBLE has a cover and it’s stunning! We think it captures the bold and hopeful quality of Steve Bright’s advocacy. Pls consider pre-ordering this book about a lifelong advocate for the poor and fierce critic of the criminal justice system.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

How can every professor possibly be on the top 10% of SSRN downloads?

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Some wishful thinking in Akhil Amar’s argument that Alito’s text-limited-by-tradition approach to Roe won’t spill over to affect other rights.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

In 1985, a Vietnamese man was tried for murder in a Gainesville, GA, courtroom. During the second day of trial, someone in the audience finally alerted everyone they were trying the wrong man.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

The judge sees zero public interest in maintaining the status quo. He writes dismissively: “Chemical abortion is only the status quo insofar as Defendants’ unlawful actions and their delay in responding to Plaintiffs’ petitions have made it so.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

It’s possible to talk about two different things: 1. A sneering and sexist manner of talking about (and relating to) accomplished women. 2. The role that meritocratic practices like titles play in inhibiting discourse and solidarity.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

9 months

Congrats to my @BU_Law colleague Anna di Robilant on her new book: Making modern property reinventing roman law europe and its peripheries 1789-1950 @cambUP_History

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

28 days

In June 2001, Stephen Bright told Senators: "Having any lawyer in town represent someone in a death penalty case is sort of like if someone in town needs brain surgery and you say, 'well we don't have any brain surgeons in this town but there's a chiropractor down the street.'"

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Doug Laycock goes off on the Bremerton football prayer decision

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Thx for reading along. I’ve focused on the judge’s rhetorical choices, leaving others to tackle his reasoning under administrative law. If interested, @maryrziegler and I will soon post our new paper on this subject: “Abortion Politics & the Rise of Movement Jurists.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

photo shoot. which should I go with for my faculty profile?

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Did Alito leave in his cites to the witch burner? Of course he did. Dobbs must be turned into an infamous decision through politics, just like Plessy, Korematsu, or Lochner.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Another relevant passage highlighted by @lsepper , where the judge, in his own language, says he thinks the drug “starves the unborn human until death.”

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Liz Sepper

1 year

I mean. This is paragraph 4 of the opinion in Alliance for Hippocratic Med v FDA that aims to withdraw approval of mifepristone. This is how the judge describes medication abortion

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

4 years

@OrinKerr This is what set him off?

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Deep into the section on why he thinks the FDA acted “arbitrarily and capriciously,” more use of the term “abortionist” to describe someone who prescribes the drug as well as someone who performs a surgical procedure.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

5 years

@OrlyLobel @CoreyRYung @9GAG I would plead, Not Guilty By Reason of Funny, your Honor.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

10 months

“The last time a white person was executed for killing a Black person was in 1752, over a half century before the Louisiana Purchase.”

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The Death Penalty on Trial in Louisiana

Petitions filed on behalf of dozens of people on death row are asking the governor for mass clemency, and showcasing the injustices that undergird capital punishment.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

First photos taken from my new office ⁦ @BU_Law ⁩. What do you think? ⁦⁦ @BU_Tweets ⁩

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

3 years

Judge Richard Posner: “A bare-bones system for the defense of indigent criminal defendants may be optimal.”

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

2 years

Lots of tools available to cops if crowds get out of hand. Use the local noise ordinance. Arrest for blocking cars after violating orders. Refusing a lawful order. Come on people, don’t be soft.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

1 year

Anyway, more evidence that the judge doesn’t mind being seen as a friend to the anti-abortion movement (a “pro-life judge”), regardless of how that might affect how other judges, regular citizens, and others might perceive the ruling.

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Rᴏʙᴇʀᴛ L. Tsᴀɪ

9 months

Good luck to the attorneys involved, and of course the accused. Over and out.

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