Miro C @MiroCyo Twitter profile

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

Geneticists have had access to ancient DNA whole genome sequences from Canaanites, Israelites, Judahites for some time now. First genetic distances to modern people below. I will be providing lots of information in this thread

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@MiroCyo

9 months

The mystery (and controversy) surrounding the identity of the Ancient Egyptians is now over, at least academically. With whole genome samples from individuals from the Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, and New Kingdom (of both elites and commoners) we can now use them to model Ancient…

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@MiroCyo

9 months

Genetic distances to modern populations of the new Ancient Egyptian samples from the study that is going to be released at some point (Mussauer et al.) This should really end the debates once and for all, but of course it won't for certain ethnonationalists

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@MiroCyo

9 months

Ancient Egyptian samples and their genetic distance to modern people in map form. Warmer color is closer. Perhaps easier to visualize and understand than the last post.

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@MiroCyo

8 months

Palestinian Christians are almost genetically indistinguishable from Roman-era Levantines, people of the time of Jesus Christ, the Apostles, etc. It provides interesting speculation as to their origin. Perhaps they descend from such people, the first Jews to convert to…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

A 19th Century woman from Abkhazia, Georgia, who was initially misidentified as 'Blackfoot,' a pre-human species, or some mythical creature, has recently had her DNA sequenced. The results show that this woman was actually of black African descent.

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@MiroCyo

8 months

This is what it looks like happened. The Bronze Age inhabitants of the region were Canaanites, Amorites, Eblaites, etc. The ancestors of the Akkadians, Babylonians, Assyrians, Chaldeans, etc also came from the BA Levant. A subgroup of Canaanites became Israelites (they are…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

Almost all Jews, Christians, and Muslims of the region carry noticeable Bronze Age/Iron Age Levantine ancestry. This means that almost all modern Levantines are at least partially (some overwhelmingly), descended from Israelites or people genetically indistinguishable from them

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

These are all samples recovered from the Bronze Age and Iron Age Levant, dated to differing time periods and coming from different cultures. They are all genetically similar to one another. Closest people are usually Christian Levantines > Many Jewish groups > Muslims > Other…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

As you can see Samaritans (yes they still exist, but they are dying out) arealmost indistinguishable from not just Israelites, but even Bronze Age Canaanites. Very impressive continuity. But it comes at the cost of serious inbreeding. There are only a couple hundred of them left

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

Note: Genetic distances of around 0.02 or under mean a group is practically genetically indistinguishable to the people being compared. Around 0.05 implies distinguishability but still belonging to the same genetic regional grouping (regional groupings of a sub-racial…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

The reason Christian Levantines are closest the Canaanites, Israelites, Roman-era Jews, etc is because they never relinquished their religion, and therefore never mixed with other groups after the Islamic invasion. Those Christians who converted to Islam now had opportunities to…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

I'm sure people will find many spelling errors, sentence fluency issues, etc. I scribbled all of this down in a few minutes so forgive me

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

Everyone else (Jewish, Christian, Muslim) has mixed non-Middle Eastern ancestry, the majority of it being European (Greek and even Bactrian ancestry that entered the Levant after Alexanders conquests). Muslim Levantines also carry ~3-5% sub-Saharan African ancestry on average…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@DrLauraGrimes Muslims claim Jews are foreigners. Jews claim Muslims are from Arabia (they speak Arabic and like to even call themselves Arabs, so why not?) Turns out, almost every single group living in the Levant today are native, and the Muslims even are descended from Israelites.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

Jews, Muslims, and Christians of the Levant today descend mostly from Middle Eastern groups that form a broad racial cluster. Some are more like Mesopotamians, others like Arabians or Levantines. But these differences aren't much more significant than the differences between…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@DrunkLegendary Cleopatra wasn’t even Egyptian in the first place

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

Eblaites and Amorites also form a cline and are part of the same regional population as Canaanites, Israelites, etc.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

Undeniable proof that the new Ancient Egyptian samples are completely contaminated by a modern North Italian (possibly the same individual that has contaminated many other samples from Sumer to Middle Kingdom Egypt to Neolithic France with Southern Euro ancestry)

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@Nia_Munashe Ancient DNA is conclusive, your interpretations of peoples faces aren’t

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

6 months

Genetic distance of Ancient Egyptian elite/nobility DNA samples against all modern current population averages.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@LWK2011 @DrunkLegendary She was Greek. After the Egyptians had already collapsed and the Libyans, Nubians, and Persians had taken their turn invading it, the Greeks led by Alexander conquered the Persians and took all the lands they owned. Including Egypt. She’s a descendant of one of his generals

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

This is what it looks like happened. 1: Epipaleolithic Egyptians were similar to Epipaleolithic Levantines. Very Natufian enriched. The most similar modern population to both groups would be Yemenis. There was a smooth cline of ANA affinity the further you go south in Egypt, and…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@LynkLuv @DrLauraGrimes Let's say you are a Jew ok? Christianity happens, it came from Jews. Those who convert to Christianity from Judaism, what is their ancestry now? It didn't change right? Muslim Arabians invade you. Now slowly over time you know cousins who just give up and convert to Islam. What…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@Flyye_guyy Christians were simply Jews and people genetically exactly the same as Jews who converted. Those Christians are still alive today and are the people you call Palestinian Christian, Lebanese Christian, etc. The Muslims are Christians who converted to Islam and then mixed a bit.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

Posting modern individuals (instead of the averages of entire ethnic groups) with the most Ancient Egyptian ancestry. All of them are Copts. Some Muslims score almost as high as this

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@JohnnyM22070664 Another person who can’t distinguish between a writing system and wall art

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@MiroCyo

9 months

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@Calamondins1 Same. I’m really pissed it took this long, just because they were scared of how certain people would react

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@Atkinsonia1 Sequencing the entire genome of ancient skeletons, vs loose low resolution attempts at extrapolating statements in the Bible Hard to know which to go with

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@beecozz Muslims at the time of Muhammad were mostly Arabian in genetic structure (similar to modern Saudis yes). They conquered much of what was civilization at the time, and over time the Christians slowly began converting to Islam. These new Egyptian Muslims, Levantine Muslims,…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@theleeshore_ Eurasian = European + Asia In genetics it’s more of a broad term meaning ‘not like sub-Saharan Africans’, since there is a massive gap between SSAs and non-SSAs in genetic distance Greeks and Romans didn’t have much effect on modern day Egyptians. Surprisingly nor did Arabs

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@MiroCyo

2 months

@br_llm_lock So close in fact, that Egyptians and Italians are orders of magnitude genetically closer than siblings are? This is impossible

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@CavemanInASuit From Roman times Jews yes, but only Christians. Muslims are also somewhat close but they have 5-6% sub-Saharan African and around 20-30% Egyptian/Arabian ancestry So the Muslims similar just not indistinguishable

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

I'm starting to think that the old paper on the R1b in Tut, Akhenaten and Amenhotep III are also contamination. That very same study had their paternal ancestor Thutmose I as L1a There are some massive and consistent inconsistencies here.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

@Amazigh_Soldier I wouldn't jump to such conclusions. That Tut R1b paper had lots of Middle Eastern people on it. It's most likely just incompetence

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@callmeMsJackson @beecozz I am here to provide genetic (along with sometimes historical, linguistic, archaeological, anthropological, comparative mythological, and epigraphic) information/facts. That’s where my expertise is. I have to maintain neutrality, like I did with the ancient Egyptian thread. As…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

The study pushed for an East African origin for the woman but it's clear that she possessed mixed ancestry, with genetic contributions from both Nilotic and West African populations. Her genetic profile bears a close resemblance to that of Laal speakers from Chad and Mada…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@K_Channel So then before converting to Christianity what were they? Pagans? That’s fine too, they’d be pagans genetically indistinguishable from the Jews of the time. Same people. The desire to remove all connection to Jews is impossible now. Ancient DNA is conclusive.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

I should add that this makes my post (many months ago) on the 10-15% Southern Euro ancestry in the Middle Kingdom elites probably wrong. The sheet I've seen lists that sample as having "critical contamination" - again, that 15% Southern Euro is most similar to North Italians

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@Olive2802 Egyptian Muslims are genetically similar to each other They are Copts, who used to be ancient Egyptians, who converted to Islam. And then took on some 10% SSA ancestry when they enslaved black Africans and mixed with them. Copts were not allowed to own slaves

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

@n00rdung There are no pictures of her. All that we are left with are artistic depictions. The pic on the left is her granddaughter and on the right her son (who was also sequenced and presented above). Still people claimed (right up until a few years ago) that she was something exotic

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@JohnMcD51511070 The only people that are 95%+ Israelite are the Samaritans. Everyone else is a tiny bit less or a lot less.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

Basically, we looked into samples 2287 and 2288 who are both heavily Southern European autosomally. Uploaded both to Gedmatch and compared them using Gedmatch One-To-One autosomal tool. The screenshots above are evidence that both samples are contaminated by the *same person*

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

Ancient Genome of Emperor Wu, the seventh emperor of the Han Dynasty (and the longest ever reigning ethnically Han emperor) Closest modern populations and closest ancient populations below

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

Here are the same Ancient Egyptian samples but mapped onto the people during the Roman Period instead of modern day populations

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@blamemuh Ashkenazi Jews aren't the majority of Israel

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@LighthouseDPC Basic summary. Ancient Egyptians were closest to modern Middle Eastern people, of varying types depending on time period, region of the country, and class. The second closest (but quite far) would be Europeans, then South Asians. The most distant would be sub-Saharan Africans.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@bestowed_wisdom Yes. But their non-Egyptian DNA is of a different type. While Muslims are only 10% SSA Nubians are over 3x that. SSA is very far from ancient Egyptian and all Eurasian so in terms of distance to ancient Egyptians Nubians are quite far. Whether you care more about distance or…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

I should also add that people distinguish between deep ancestry and fairly recent (15,000 BC and younger say) ancestry. Technically, all of these samples do have more than 5-6% ‘black’ ancestry, even if all of that is damage and they score 0%. In the Upper Paleolithic it seems…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@Keyzz6 Now that we have thousands of whole genome sequences from the entire Middle East and Europe, it is conclusive that this opinion is incorrect.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

6 months

Scrolling through all modern populations. For reference (roughly speaking): 0.015 - nearly indistinguishable 0.03-0.05 - similar regional clustering (like Spanish vs Portugese) 0.1-0.15 - rough limit of racial cluster (Italian vs Lebanese) 0.3-0.4 - 'subspecies' limit

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@devibharati Ashkenazi genetically is simply a Sephardi with a dose of Northern European ancestry (oversimplified ofc) The differences aren't vast.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

Just received the G25 coordinates of the only Ancient Egyptian samples good enough to run (from the new heart disease study). They are 100% modern Southern European, clearly indicating contamination (probably from the last 200 years) The samples I've seen don't look like this

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@SexHarassed @Calamondins1 Not being close to or related to sub-Saharan Africans, and in fact being more distant to them than they are to Native Americans or Chinese people would cause an uproar. Also Egyptian Muslims are a bit touchy about anyone claiming they are not 100% descended from AEs

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@K_Channel his ancestors are genetically indistinguishable from Antiquity-era Jews, and extremely similar to Israelites as well (>80% continuity). His ancestors simply converted to Christianity.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

All the stuff in green is basically Identical. It's impossible for siblings even to have that much. Gedmatch doesn't show that they have matching segments because matching segments need to be continuously (full/half) identical for some length (7 centimorgan for example)

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@Randomvoter99 You’re likely going to be a mix of Germanic tribes (that caused the fall of Rome) and the Celtic tribes that have lived in France before they spoke French. The ones that fought the Romans etc

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@NewNorm89 Egyptian authorities have nothing to do with any of this. It’s western researchers sitting on the findings

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@JohnnyMorales_ Yes, but in changing religions they became their own breeding group. Spread of Islam meant that the Muslim convert ‘Jews’/‘Canaanites’ began mixing with other Muslims regardless where they came from. So while the Levantine Christians didn’t change much at all, the Levantine…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

And the Theban female once more (can only fit 4 pictures at a time)

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@fuhler_joh91256 @Nia_Munashe How about a look at her actual mummy Hopefully it teaches you that artistic depictions aren’t meant to be perfect representations of their real life appearance

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@frida1998 Those hotspots are Sudanese Copts, who are genetically indistinguishable from Egyptian Copts. They split only a few centuries ago and didn’t mix with the Nubian and Sudanese populations.

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@MiroCyo

9 months

Theban female sample as well

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@blamemuh Asheknazis are about 1/3 of the total population If i was biased i wouldnt be posting distance and admixture models showing Christian and Muslim Levantines being so close to Israelites and Canaanites of the past.

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

Genetic distances between different human populations and different species of animals. What would you say the equivalent to this is in G25 @Some_Guy_who123

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@lanticavirtu That’s right. Good post

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@Modeer030 there are dozens of ethnicities who do. They even call themselves Arab and speak Arabic! Egyptians, Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, etc. Some Muslims dont like Iranians and Turks yes. Others do. Hell even Pakistanis do sometimes.

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@MiroCyo

2 months

Well what do ya know: "The analyses were performed in the ancient DNA Laboratory of the Eurac Research Institute for Mummy Studies–a special DNA Laboratory in Bolzano (Italy)" Embarrassing honestly

Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

Just received the G25 coordinates of the only Ancient Egyptian samples good enough to run (from the new heart disease study). They are 100% modern Southern European, clearly indicating contamination (probably from the last 200 years) The samples I've seen don't look like this

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@thehonoursirjo1 No one claimed anything of the sort either But groups become differentiated by not breeding with each other. Pali Muslims and Pali Christians have moderately different profiles. How else can you label them? It’s literally the religion that caused this difference

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@DLlor40 That's a good point too and an interesting way of looking at it. Here are some examples comparing Palestinian Muslims to both Jews and to Saudis Image 1 = Palestinian Christians compared to all Levantines and Saudis Image 2 = Saudi compared to all Levantines (very far from all…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

6 months

@arabianemperor Genetic distance doesnt necessarily mean ancestry. Irish and Swedish are closely related, it doesnt mean one descends from the other. Arabians and Egyptians are/were distant sister populations. Neither is descended from the other

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@maryerin88 Well of course. Everyone has ancient ancestors that belonged to some ancient culture in the past. You simply compare modern peoples genomes to ancient dna sequences sampled from long dead people to find out who the closest modern people are.

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@ThomBradley8 The oldest samples are dated to 4000 BC and they are still genetically similar to Middle Eastern people. You are wrong. In fact, being Semitic would make you closer to Ancient Egyptians anyway. Heck the distance between Ancient Egyptians and Chinese is significantly less than…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@martywalser @LynkLuv @DrLauraGrimes This post only goes back to the Bronze Age. If we start showing what Chalcolithic and Neolithic genomes from the region look like things get stranger, and the closest distances to those groups get much further. So Bronze Age is about as far back as you want to go

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@akdacpac Ancient Jews or people genetically indistinguishable from ancient Jews (ancient Canaanite cultures of a different belief) They all spoke extremely similar languages, and their genetics were the same It’s like asking if we’re talking about an Englishman from Liverpool or Bristol

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@StretchJ57 Giza Pyramids and Sphinx were built in circa 2600 BC. You understand that first sample is from Giza and is dated to this time period right? It has 0% sub-Saharan African ancestry

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@Tee4EjamiNDays See, you’re making things up. There is no one ‘study’ this came form. This is an amalgamation of dozens of papers and all the info is open source. For someone who claims to know a lot you seem to be confused by basic things, like breeding groups based on religion

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@chrisbantwell @Flyye_guyy The genetic distance between an Englishman from Liverpool and one from Bristol.

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@Modeer030 That's correct. See? You didn't even notice and assumed they are 🤣 They can take on whatever culture they want. Genetically they have little (and in many cases 0) Arabian ancestry

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@ARebel562 Palestinian Christians are a small minority. Also, my personal opinion is it’s quite impressive Ashkenazi Jews retained the culture of their fellow ancestors better than anyone else did They may have less ancestry from the region but they protected the family jewels so to speak

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

2 months

2287 and 2288 are different people - one is a child and the other is an adult and their dates are not the same. So there is no way you will get all those identical pairs between them... unless they have been contaminated by the same person

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@HenryPueblo It's a highly homogenous ethnoreligious group since they bred together due to ingroup biases of not mixing with non-Copts. Religions can create cultures of not mixing with others. Copts stayed the same, Muslims mixed more with their SSA slaves.

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@MiroCyo

2 months

And since this is contamination, it happened randomly and the identical areas in green are not continuous (there are different red SNPs interleaving, which are actually from the sample itself)

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@Eplurib00257384 We have whole genome sequences of Natufians. We know what they look like genetically. This kind of game is over I think. Also, doesn’t look very Negroid. Looks like a gracile caucasoid structure to me

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@SailorDF @LynkLuv @DrLauraGrimes Philistines are now confirmed to be Mycenaean Greeks (and some Anatolians among them as well). Similar to the rest of the Sea Peoples. So they invaded the region. Eventually they were absorbed and/or destroyed since we don’t detect their presence only a few centuries later

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@AliceCaterpill1 Indeed. It would be akin to modern day black Americans claiming they are the true descendants of Thomas Jefferson or George Washington and that white Americans are just the descendants of slaves

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@MiroCyo

6 months

@realMaalouf Their genetic continuity since the EMBA (Bronze Age) is on average between 70-80%, depending on if you’re taking Christian or Muslim That’s at least 4500 years… I’ve seen your posts before. I don’t think you’re interested in objectivity

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@DiamondTrioEnt @Nia_Munashe Are Indians “black”

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@MiroCyo

6 months

@owen_mccor Yes good question, I considered adding that in the thread but I noticed people dont tend to read, just enjoy fancy visuals. Old Kingdom was very Natufian-enriched, which meant the closest were Yemenis. During the collapse of the Old Kingdom what the Egyptians called 'Asiatics'…

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@blamemuh “And you obscure the fact that ashkenazi are not levantinte and completely foreign” Thank you for proving you’re the dishonest one. The admixture models show Ashkenazi do have Levantine ancestry, going back to the Bronze Age Israelites and before them the Canaanites

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@K_Channel Right, so his ancestors were pagans before Christ then? And he’s sure of this how? There’s just as much a chance they were Jews as any other Canaanite religion.. The groups are genetically indistinguishable it’s impossible for him to find out

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@History__Speaks Previously, the ancient Egyptians from the Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, etc were compared to modern ethnic groups. Genetic distance was measured using f2 stats and Davidskis G25 calculator (which is very similar to f2). Link is here (with a long explanation below that post):…

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

8 months

@OldBlue1865 Shouldn’t have to be refuted since it’s so silly. But yes, none of these groups (Israelites, Canaanites, Edomites, Moabites, Amorites, Eblaites, Philistines, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc etc) had sub-Saharan African ancestry

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Miro C

@MiroCyo

9 months

@FloridaFlubber The French? No. They don’t have any sub Saharan African ancestry

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@HurmMatthew Only posted pictures of models for people with greater than 0%. It would be wasteful to post thousands of pictures representing all 2,000 ethnicities I made an exception for West Africans though because there is a loud contingent claiming they have the most. They score 0% too.

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@MiroCyo

8 months

@Cyb3rTr1 Because 23andme doesnt compare you to ancient DNA samples we have. No commercial company does except a few scammers, with one exception that I'm aware of:

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@Steve_Sailer 2 things. I wouldn’t use him as a reference for anyone. His unique facial structure (proptosis combined with low buccal fat hyper angular jawline) is unique and probably more of a him thing. A weird outlier of a human. Plus he’s part Greek. Second, I think there’s room for lots…

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@MiroCyo

9 months

@jturnage584 We already found out that there was 15% southern European ancestry in the elites of the early Middle Kingdom. So the answer is yes.

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@MiroCyo

9 months

Forgot about the Theban woman (deep Upper Egypt) In no time period were there populations that seemed to be even close to SSAs. Western Bantus score around 0.7 distance. This isnt races apart or even subspecies apart (using the same standards regarding genetic distance that we…

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