Often the way we "lose" XYZ is by tempering it with something that is required once you're no longer a child. e.g. It's easy to be boundlessly creative if you don't care if it actually works. It's easy to be fearless if an adult will rescue you if anything goes wrong.

Actual children are extremely easily frustrated and scared. The traits you admire in them and want to "reclaim" are largely an artefact of low standards and strong support networks.

This is not a critique of the children (though it's sometimes very annoying), it's a critique of people's idealisation of children to the exclusion of actual real children's behaviour.

An adult is not someone who "lost" childish traits, they're someone who is trying to do things children don't have to and can't do.

Unsurprisingly I've now hit the point where I need to mute this conversation, so I have.

@DRMacIver I’m sympathetic to this, especially when it takes on the force of an argument for XYZ or becomes anti-adult. But also I think there are areas where it is true or seemingly so. I don’t think it’s an error that people admire children’s curiosity or exuberance or friendships.

@mbateman No I don't think it's an error to admire many positive traits exhibited by children either! But I think often they're admired in a highly idealised form that ignores a lot of the details of how they exhibit them.

@DRMacIver My fave is when people post videos of children clearly parroting their parents’ talking points,, And then earnestly going “this is so simple that 4 year olds understand!! How do adults go so astray??”

@the_wilderless I asked my 4 year old about this and he said "Adults have forever projected their idealised visions of innocence and purity onto humans. In this modern age, we have equated disagreement with evil, so naturally we assume children must be wise". From the mouths of babes.

@DRMacIver Kids are curious, i think thats what people mean. often (but not always) more curious then they are worried by social signalling. I think that's what people are often pointing at with those claims,

@Levi7hart I think kids are about as curious as they are creative and fearless - i.e. typically until it requires them to do something frustrating or that they don't want to do. But I also don't think this is what most takes I see about this are pointing to.

@DRMacIver I would have liked to write this thread myself, but I was busy with my 3yo son who was purple with rage that I wouldn’t help him to wrap a stick in scotch tape

@amelapay Ha ha yes this thread was somewhat prompted by a similar experience with a frustrated child in quick succession with running into one of Those Tweets.

@DRMacIver Disagree. School as an institution makes the adults that relate through it both inclined towards reckless confidence in the way they relate to and guide children in a way that can be emotionally damaging shaping self image and life choices in unintended yet well meaning ways

@JustinAllingham Yes I'm familiar with and sympathetic to the "school ruins everything" explain everything theory, and I just don't think it holds up to the behaviour of actual children in entirely non-school contexts with no adults around.

@DRMacIver Really? It seems more obvious to me interacting with my kids than ever before.

@DRMacIver I've had this thought recently regarding expanded awareness, seeing a 10yo and a 6yo completely collapse all awareness into a boardgame / toy (Granted I mostly heard *babies* have EA naturally, not kids. @m_ashcroft / @metaLulie might correct me? But clearly it can be gone by 6)

@DRMacIver Nah I wanted to be a scientist as a kid and then lost sight of that and then no am realizing I had it right as a kid

@DRMacIver This mirrors what I've been puzzling with for a while. Although I find the lens of "everyone is either seeking for or coping with childhood experiences" lacking, I can see why a development psychologist might think it's of primary importance.

@DRMacIver I skip this and do takes about what we lost by becoming civilized and must recover, it's better because it's unfalsifiable.